Friday Feedback
June 23, 2017 by Mike Casazza
Welcome to the Friday Feedback, which wants to start with a serious tone today. Earlier this week, we commemorated the state’s birthday, and while celebrations were elevated by the Will Grier news, they were also tapered a day later by the budget. Today, we note that we’re a year removed from the rain and the flooding that wiped out parts of West Virginia. Things are better. Things are not great. Things can still improve.
If you can, spend some time today reading through the stories we put together for today’s Gazette-Mail. There are sports, which is where we became involved last year, but there’s more. These are good stories about people and about society, about working together and about needing to do more.
No joke here today. Onto the Feedback. As always, comments appear as posted.
The 25314 said:
Congrats on the invite to the bachelor party.
That’s more like it.
Sid Brockman said:
So, he is eligible? Or no?
Let’s get it out of our systems.
Rugger said:
Rosey news regarding Grier…..Bud Foster just tightened up a bit.
I got it.
Mack said:
Holgorsen’s is only the second best tweet ever by a WVU coach thanks to this gem:
Mack also said:
I knew that wouldn’t work… so here’s the link:
Simpler times.
JAL said:
NCAA takes it time, I thought they might wait until the week before the season starts to make the decision. Now the team can move forward.
I understand the worry, especially as it involves the NCAA and its judicial pace, but I think the NCAA acted quickly, from start to finish, if you consider that this probably didn’t officially start too long ago. It’s a reinstatement process. I’m trying to find out exactly when this “started” — as in when WVU completed the submission that started the reinstatement process — but we know that there was a, let’s say, working agreement 13 months ago. Without a specific answer for when it “started,” I’d assume the working agreement gave WVU a definitive date to commence the reinstatement process with the assurance being Grier, if legally eligible, would be cleared in time.
ML said:
Whether you believe Grier’s story or not, the NCAA put that kid through an awful lot of [stuff].
… not sure I agree with that. I know he’ll be 23 months between starts, but most of that is on his shoulders. And if you choose to believe no one knew for sure until Tuesday, you also choose to ignore that a college football team gave every QB1 snap in the spring to a guy whose status for the first six games wouldn’t be known for two months after the spring game.
Dino said:
No…… not according to the evidence. Grier got caught in a time warp. Reportedly, Grier had been taking a supplement for some time, as many athletes do, and in the meantime the NCAA added one of the ingredients in the supplement he had been taking to the ‘banned’ list. Grier did not follow the protocol at Florida to have all supplements approved by the Florida staff and got caught in the time warp after the substance became illegal.
This is and is not true, which as far as obscurity goes is right up the NCAA’s alley. Ligandrol, if that is indeed what Grier consumed, was not banned, but the NCAA is completely clear on one tenet: The banned substance list is not comprehensive. You’re supposed to go to the team and ask questions if, for some reason, you choose to trust your own strength and conditioning expertise above the strength and conditioning staff at your school. Schools tell their players this all the time, too.
The 25314 said:
It’s remarkable how every positive PED test in the history of sports was one big misunderstanding or accident.
Inconceivable!
I love you, Doug! said:
Was it a supplement designed to increase the luxurious thickness and sheen of his hair?
Remember when Grier and Clint Trickett sat next to one another on a flight to New York and discussed, among many things, transferring and WVU? Hair product had to fill some of that time, too.
Down South said:
Athletes at all levels are looking for every advantage they can get. And there isn’t a great deal of regulation of the supplement market. It’s pretty easy to make the mistake Grier made with an ever-changing list of banned substances. The supplement manufacturers are always going to be one step ahead of the regulators. If Grier was a linebacker who went from 195 to 230 over a summer, I’d have a harder time believing his story. I have to think that Grier could get his former head coach fired if he comes to WVU and burns it up and the Florida offense continues to sputter. The hardest thing about the whole story for me to comprehend was Florida’s decision to cut Grier loose when he had clearly demonstrated an ability to win at the upper levels of the SEC.
Well, Grier did have a substantial weight gain, and the details of his departure are cloudy. He wasn’t kicked off the team. Now, did he ask for a guarantee to start again? Did he simply want to know he’d be in the plans? We don’t know. But we do know he wouldn’t have been able to practice until before the seventh game of the 2016 season. I have a hard time believing Grier demanded that he’d be installed as the starter at that point and I have a harder time believing he got bent out of shape over asking about that and being denied.
Harleymick said:
I’m familiar with the GNC nutritional product that Grier took. It is still readily available and is not an anabolic steroid. It is similar in function to creatine monohydrate in that it speeds healing, thereby letting you work out harder in the gym. To call that a ‘performance enhancing drug’ is a bit of a stretch. If you do not work out very hard lifting weights, it does nothing. That was a pretty steep price to pay for what is essentially a protein shake.
We need the macro view here. He’s not suspended for taking Ligandrol, or whatever. He’s suspended for breaking a major NCAA rule.
The 25314 said:
He wasn’t accused of taking the wrong supplement, he tested positive for a banned substance. He lost his starting job because he was suspended, and chose to transfer. He had to sit out last year due to transfer rules, so it was fair to ask whether he was truly being punished if his suspension ran concurrent with his transfer-ineligible year, which he chose.
From all accounts, he seems like a pretty good guy, and a great QB. I’m excited for him to be a Mountaineer. He’s paid for his mistake and I don’t hold it against him. But to act like he’s been unfairly treated in any sense is blind bias. If he were the Pitt QB, or even Oklahoma’s QB, WVU fans would be indignant with the NCAA’s leniency.
Here’s a question, given that you’ve explained how his decision to transfer enhanced his punishment: Should he be suspended six more games? If the rule is the rule, why should the NCAA care that he transferred? In theory, Grier improved his situation and cut six games off his on-the-field ban.
Mack said:
Even if Grier gets hurt and isn’t able to bring a full season (like Trickett), I’d take it in exchange for him lighting up Virginia Tech. I don’t follow Virginia Tech any more, but it traditionally has no quarterback. (Quick gambling tip: Bet against VT any time it plays a team that’s probably going to score more than 20 points and you’re probably going to come out ahead)… so WVU having a good quarterback with good running backs and probably good receivers. I’m ready to watch the game.
The line opened in March with the Hokies as a three-point favorite. The spread — live odds! — is a point larger today.
avb31 said:
This kid has incredible court vision, and seems to take care of the ball. This camp he just participated in was the best of the best. I hope we can surround him with some shooters because he will find the open man and create some great looks.
Jordan McCabe, a four-star recruit just outside the top 100.
MontanaEer said:
38% from the field, 70% from the line: that’s about right.
In his team’s first game, McCabe made a layup to give his team a three-point lead with a few seconds to go. He then went 0-for-1 on back-to-back trips to the foul line. And yet, his team still won.
The 25314 said:
The next Tyler Relph.
I buy it. I thought of a less-flashy Noah Cottrill.
BobbyHeenan said:
@25314…
I thought the same (Relph comparison)…but then the kid has done very well on the AAU circuit.
If he can hit that floater with accuracy and defend he’ll be fine. He has better handles than anyone on our team now and can get around defenders. He can’t lift to finish but he has a good shot so you can’t back off him..so when he goes around if he can finish with the floater he’s got a great arsenal on offense. He passes better than anyone we’ve had in a while.
The concern with him will be perimeter rebounding (if we are going to go a bit smaller, you’ve got to have your guards get to the ball quickly on mid range rebounds), defending, and overall athleticism/foot speed. I don’t think he’s dynamite off the first move or lift, and I *think* he’ll be able to get by defenders but we’ll see.
I don’t think he’ll be a first team all B12 guy, but I think a solid contributor is very likely. I’ll be shocked if he ends up like Relph.
I was encouraged by mid-range scores. He’s probably not going to get his around the rim, and he’ll need more than just a jumper, so if he can create or find space in between and score, he’ll be a little tricker to guard. I think there are some Beetle Bolden parallels.
Sid Brockman said:
The hype train may now leave the station. By the VT game, we’ll be disappointed if those game’s stats don’t exceed Geno vs Baylor.
All righty.
LoganvilleJeff said:
My goodness our offense should be special. Weapons abound at every skill position.
The Grier news is so big it obscures the questions marks at receiver! Sills, White and Jennings haven’t done much and have a lot to prove. That said, Grier makes that situation better.
Mack said:
I watched roughly two or three of Grier’s possessions in the spring game just to get some idea of what to expect in the fall. He’s not a physical specimen, but he is definitely smart and comfortable with the position. He seems to know what he’s doing – for lack of a better explanation – and therefore is able to concentrate more on where exactly to place the ball rather than which receiver or which direction to go to. He looks like a guy who doesn’t have to think about 90% of what he has to do… I came away from the spring game very encouraged.
With the exception of the Geno seasons — and really, probably only the second season, because the first was the first — every Holgorsen season has come with some set of concerns about the quarterback. The only time Holgorsen’s WVU has felt better about its quarterback was 2012.
The 25314 said:
I need Brady Ackerman’s take on Will Grier.
I wonder how many people got that. And no one ever asked me if Ackerman played a role in the transfer. I thought for sure that someone would bring it up somewhere.
Down South said:
Grier did what he did at Florida against SEC defenses with an offense that hasn’t ever seemed to be very QB friendly without him in it. Now he is in a system that is QB friendly, has Holgerson, Spavital and Wickline coaching it, and will be playing primarily Big XII teams. Hard for me to imagine he doesn’t do big things.
Well, what he did came against four SEC defenses — each a game he started — as well as New Mexico State, which barely had a defense, and ECU. Tennessee, Missouri, New Mexico State and ECU were bottom-half pass defenses nationally. Also, Florida’s offensive limitations have been associated with quarterback play. Skill positions aren’t often the concern there. Grier got the ball out to playmakers, and the Gators had a terrific defense. I don’t know what my point is, but I think it’s that we’re smart to qualify his accomplishments as we use them to project the future. He’s not going to see consistently better defenses in the Big 12, but does he have the skill position and defensive talent around him at WVU?
ML said:
“The reality is I could call about anything and he’d make it work.”
That’s been Dana’s dream since Geno and Tavon left. You could see how our recent quarterbacks were so dependent on perfect play calling, and it hurts Dana’s brain. He just wants somebody that can make more than one read and has the legs/balls to afford the time needed to make those advanced reads. We all saw what he and Geno did, and this kid seems a much more gifted athlete.
Yeah, arm strength and accuracy and all that are positives, and WVU will enjoy upgrades, but Grier’s always been QB1. He knows the role and all it demands in every aspect.
Joe Dryler said:
I’m not sure why a great second chance place for highly recruited QB’s would not translate into just a great place for highly recruited QBs. Maybe if Grier hits it big, that evolution will occur and we can get one of these guys right out of high school.
It won’t hurt. But there’s an urgency or immediacy with transfers, and they know they have to be precise when they make their next pick, because the first one didn’t work out so well. If WVU can make that decision easier, it stands to benefit greatly. Overall, though, wins, yards, touchdowns and prizes speak to recruits, who matter where they come from, which leads me to this: You know who has an underrated but huge role going forward? Chris Chugunov. He’s the only homegrown quarterback on the roster, and if he’s the starter in 2018 or 2019, then the Mountaineers have added to their street cred.
I love you, Doug! said:
I rewatched the first quarter of the 2008 Car Care Bowl and was reminded of what an inept, squanderer-of-talent was Jeff Mullen. The only way WVU won that game was by Pat White single-handedly overcoming Mullen’s gimmicky high-school plays. First play after UNC scored on a halfback-option pass to Hakeen Nicks (what a beast, in retrospect; just shed WVU tacklers), Mullen calls a backfield pass to Jarrett Brown! Oooh, we’ll put two quarterbacks in the backfield! That will confuse them! Instead, Brown tackled for a loss. WR screen left, WR screen right. Only time WVU moved the ball was when White threw it downfield. There was a graphic showing 2008’s offense was, like, 100 yards and 12 points less per game than 2007’s. Sheesh. What a maroon.
Why would you do that? Also, I hope you stayed through to the trophy presentation and when Stew yanks the microphone from George Foreman and starts yelling, “Lemme hear you in Martinsburg. Lemme hear you in Morgantown. Lemme hear you in Charleston. Lemme hear you in Fairmont.” I’ll never, ever forget that or the look on Foreman’s face.
Down South said:
Think of how many times over the last two years that we were one play away from doing something really big and Skyler threw it high or wide or long or short to kill a drive. The expectation I have is that Grier makes more of those throws than he misses. And his bigger, more accurate arm makes us much more efficient in the red zone.
What I don’t think is being talked about enough on this team is the quality of the offensive coaching staff with Holgs, Spavital and Wickline. I watched Cal play a few times last year and they were insanely aggressive. Wickline seems to have added a little balance to Holgorsen during his time here and at Ok State when they were together. I tend to be optimistic, but I think this offense has the potential to be scary good.
These are all good points and observations. And I don’t want you to think I was picking on your earlier comments. The least we can expect of Grier is he keeps the offense on the field longer this season by making throws and sustaining drives.
Sid Brockman said:
I had a friend who always joked that Mullen’s offense at WVU was like driving a Ferrari in only first gear…blind.
Enjoy the weekend!
Oh. Almost forgot. I’m gone for a few days next week and will be back Thursday.