WVU Gameday Blog

Friday Feedback

Welcome to the Friday Feedback, guilty of a failure to monitor the comments for nearly 10 years now. Fortunately, we have no banners hanging around here.

By the way, join me in congratulating John Beilein, the first chairperson of the NCAA’s Division I men’s basketball ethics coalition, on the 2013 national championship.

I don’t want to waste time here today in case the blog vanishes out of thin air for a second straight Friday. Onto the Feedback. As always, comments appear as posted. In other words, be humble.

philip said:

as a dude who pretty much reads this blog only on my phone, i can’t say enough what an improvement has been made in how the site now functions. it seems like it’s back to its old wordpressy self. hiccups aside, kudos to the i.t. guys.

Agreed.

Mack said:

Speaking of the NCAA . . . I can’t help but wonder if Oliver Luck, with his current job, was the one who said, “Hiring hookers for 16 and 17-year-olds. . . I’d say that’s a five-game suspension.”

I wonder if there’s a flow chart or something that serves as a guide. And I wonder if it was upside down.

Bobby Heenan said:

It probably went something like this…

“Hiring hookers – that’s a 5 year post season ban! Wait – you said Louisville? I thought you said Western Kentucky?!?. Well then tell Pitino it’ll be five games and to knock it off.

“Wait, what is this? Fake classes in Afro American studies, fake grade changes, and sham signatures for student athletes for many years? A disproportionate number of athletes over general population students enrolled in such courses? This sounds very shady – give UNC Charlotte the death penalty…oh wait, you said UNC? Like main campus UNC? Jordan UNC?….hmm, well then tell them to knock it off and if they do it again they’ll be in big trouble.

I stopped paying attention to Rick Pitino and his pulpit a long, long time ago, despite his insistence on being an occasional arbiter amid rights and wrongs. I think it’s comical he’s out there saying he and “everything I’ve stood for in the last 35 years” have lost faith in the NCAA for what’s widely being considered a punishment that was heavy and still may not have gone far enough. (The financial penalties are considerable.) I understand the NCAA will steadfastly protect the integrity of academics, recruiting and enforcement, and I understand this isn’t apples to apples, but Bruce Pearl and Jim Boeheim and a bunch of other coaches ought to be upset by this. And Pitino is still adamant he’s the victim here. How on Earth can you take him seriously when he defends himself by saying he couldn’t have possibly known what was happening in his program?

Barblo Escobarb said:

Along the same lines as Mack and Robert I like to compare sports disciplines with real world work place discipline for same infraction. Basic conclusion is that anything that gets you suspended for 2 or more games is basically same territory as zero tolerance automatic termination EVERYWHERE else.

Right, except there’s rarely ever an appeals process. Or a stage to grandstand and pretend everyone forgot everything else about you.

ML said:

Not sure about that. I’ve bought hookers and blow for PR clients before, and it all worked out exactly as planned. Sometimes better.

Inverse proportionality sometimes applies. You’ll never know unless you try.

Oklahoma Mountaineer said:

Mike, do either of these guys sign with their drafting clubs??? I can’t think the money is great for bonus or salary, but they would be one year further into their careers…….interested on your and others opinion.

Let me update this: WVU players Kyle Davis and Jackson Cramer were drafted, as were recruits Will Reed and Christian Young, who I did not include in an early version of yesterday’s post because he wasn’t listed in the draft tracker Wednesday and the school’s website didn’t post a story until Thursday. Cramer is a senior, so he’ll almost certainly sign. The only thing that would keep him from signing is an injury, a decision to give up baseball or a ridiculous dispute. Unanticipated things. Will Reed will almost certainly sign, because he’s signed with WVU and will not enroll. We’re now left with Davis and Young. Davis is a 15th-round pick. That’s pretty good. But realistically, the most he can sign for is $100,000. Teams have an individualized amount of money to sign draft picks. Anyone signed in the 11th round or later for no more than $100,000 doesn’t count toward that amount. The Astros had 11 picks in the first 10 rounds — five in the top 100 picks — and a little more than $9 million to use. They’re going to devote their pool to those players. If Davis is interested in money, he can come back to school and hope he’s picked in the top 10 rounds next season. Young’s an interesting case. He was a 21st-round pick, and he, too, is quite likely limited to $100,000, but Young was also drafted last year in the 23rd round and opted for college. A very, very good season at a level he dominated bumped him up two rounds and probably didn’t make him much if any extra money. Does he want to say no to the draft again and move to a much better level of college baseball? Risk v. reward here.

Mack said:

My friend who follows this stuff more than I do told me that juniors get better signing bonuses (like $75-100k) than seniors because they have the option of going back to school. The salary is garbage (literally like $12k) so the signing bonus is all you really get. I’d think you go ahead and “go pro” if that’s the goal because you can probably finish your degree while playing in the minor leagues anyway. Of course, every athlete I ever hear of at WVU finishes their degree in two years so that’s probably already done.

If it’s simply a matter of “which prepares you better” then I really don’t see why anyone would play college baseball over the minor leagues.

This is generally true, except the part about accelerated graduation. If Davis explodes next season, is he going to be picked in the top three rounds? Top five? There isn’t much of a difference between a 15th-round pick who’s a junior and, say, an eighth-round pick who’s a senior. The eighth-round pick would get more money, but as a senior, Davis wouldn’t have any leverage to use, so he might make an extra $50,000. If the team has money to spend, maybe he doubles the bonus. Doubling $100,000 sounds like a good deal, until you realize Davis is basically living off of that to supplement a meager rookie-league salary. At the level where he’d begin, he’d get paid monthly in a short-season league.

I love you, Doug! said:

Wonder if Jennings is going to get woke, as the kids say, by this experience and organize Mountaineer athletes to demand a piece of the action. A development I wouldn’t disfavor.

Jennings does not strike me as a boat-rocker. He was reserved and didn’t want to use too much detail to describe his involvement, but he seemed to be committed to rowing the right way and answering honestly and thoughtfully when informed. I mean this as no slight to him, but remember, the schools and conferences send candidates to the NCAA, which then makes the pick. This process isn’t going to radicalize the player they combined to pick, and Che Guevara isn’t walking through that door.

Dino said:

This guy, Jennings, is on the Endangered Species List. I mean, just how many people do you know that 1.) Gather the data 2.) Consider the data and 3.) Take time to THINK about what they’re going to say BEFORE they speak what they THINK they believe???? 😉

Yeah, don’t get me wrong: Jennings is a bright and mature young man. He was the immediate name WVU thought of when asked to nominate a person. They knew he’d take this seriously.

jtmountaineer said:

Ummm…so Culver’s not guaranteed to be here for next year? That’s kind of huge news, isn’t it? Sometimes these standardized tests are a formality, and other times (see Macon, Elijah) they’re not. A few weeks ago, we believed it was Macon *or* Culver, and now it’s conceivably neither.

The cynic in me would urge you to trust nothing in these seemingly annual student-athlete dramas. Everyone has an angle. For this one, I don’t know that it’s ever been anything but not guaranteed. The only thing I’ve seen to suggest otherwise were quotes from him at an all-star game in Beckley, and that was a weird deal. He contradicted either reports or perceptions, but he said he’d be here in June. Um? I think we could have interpreted the Macon deal as a sign, but maybe Macon was sincere about going pro and we used compartmental logic. 

Mack said:

At the end of the day, your roster/depth chart in August is all you have. Going into a season, if you have a bunch of good players at key positions then you’re probably going to be good. If you have a bunch of freshmen “that are going to be good” then you’re probably going to be terrible.

I seriously doubt that any great high school recruit is being turned away because we don’t have room for them due to taking transfers from Florida. Even so, the transfer from Florida probably has a higher probability of success than the incoming freshman.

While it’s great to have players that started and finished at WVU . . . at the end of the day, when your team sucks and you’re playing a good Oklahoma State team at home… I’d rather have Clint Trickett behind center than Paul Millard.

Think of it this way: Pretend Jack Allison is a true freshman who signed in February and enrolled over the summer — because that’s essentially the case. He’ll sit out this season, but pretend that that’s the same as a nominal amount of meaningless playing time behind Will Grier this season. In reality and in our pretend scenario here, Allison has three years left beginning with 2018.

BobbyHeenan said:

*checks twitter/film for the most important thing*

Yup – has great hair. Knew it.

Significant development, but also part of the transfer vetting process. Trickett, Grier and even Howard all had good lettuce. 

Sid Brockman said:

I also don’t mind having multi-year transfers. I think rolling through grad transfers with only one year of eligibility is not sustainable. Is WVU now Transfer-QB U?

I’d have an issue with quarterbacks with one year and I’d be open to one-offs … anywhere else.

Oklahoma Mountaineer said:

Am I the only one that is concerned that he changes course so easy??? He’s out as soon as he loses a competition in Miami and then can’t stick with a transfer decision more than two hours before he changes his mind………hope I’m wrong here.

I wouldn’t say you’re wrong. Allison committed to Mark Richt’s predecessor, and Allison did not have a productive — or healthy — spring. He wasn’t out front in the quarterback competition, and the Hurricanes are pumped about incoming N’Kosi Perry. Then there’s Arthur Sitkowski, who is actually a 2018 recruit and not an all-AFL tackle from the 1960s. The past, present and future were not right, so it’s hard to blame Allison for doing what so many others do. As for the junior college deal, I asked around about that, and it seems the reportage was premature and then, in typical 2017 fashion, proliferated without any authentication. From what I understand, there was some minor and brief confusion over transfer rules — I took that to mean academic expectancies — but he was never committed to a junior college team.

Clarence Oveur said:

WVU’s football program is like an island of misfit toys. The school doesn’t really have a recruiting base (due to a lack of consistent in-state talent), so it has to go out and be creative to bring in players.

It will always be a challenge to sell Morgantown to big-time high school recruits. But when you have a coaching staff who can sell playing time at a legitimate Power 5 program that has enjoyed some recent success, transfers are going to listen. If that’s how you bring talent to town, so be it. As CC Team said, the ‘who’ is more important than the ‘how’.

On a side note, does this (a third legitimate QB transfer) mean that Dana might have cachet in bringing QBs to WVU? Since the ‘how’ isn’t as important as the ‘who’, does it matter that he brings in good QBs by transfer rather than recruiting?

What matters more to wins and losses? How many top-10 quarterbacks WVU has or how WVU got them? I still think Dana would like an organic quarterback, but with Grier and now Allison, it may be a while.

Wayward Eer said:

I don’t really care how they get here. I do see the advantage in this type of transfer. They can sit out the year while learning the offense and be ready to go in the spring with 3 years of eligibility. Do feel a little bad for Chugs as, unless the NCAA pulls one of their tricks and doesn’t approve Grier playing to start the year, he probable will never be a starter at WVU. Seems like a good kid who just plugs away.

This isn’t a bad point, and if you’re one of the kids WVU is recruiting for 2018, what are you thinking? How long until someone argues that transfer quarterback recruiting is a negative and hurting high school quarterback recruiting? I know who’s writing that story, and I could probably accurately guess when.

philip said:

we are the dogs that get what falls off the big boys’ table. been lucky enough to have a couple of steaks fall off the platter. woof woof, nom nom.

Here’s the thing we’re not mentioning: It’s a really competitive marketplace. Figure a very good quarterback who falls into the transfer market is going to get much of the same attention he got before and then a swarm of new possibilities. Maybe the quality of competitors isn’t the same, but the quantity is greater. Also, Allison immediately pinpointed WVU … and a Mississippi junior college … so he was acting on an informed hunch.

ML said:

The quarterback lottery is all about scratching tickets, it’s not about where they’re bought. Winners can come from anywhere.

Bingo.

BobbyHeenan said:

“Mack: Can we call Jack Allison “The All American, American?””

Yes. Yes, we can. Can also do the “We, The People” after he throws a TD pass.
The Swagger trophy segment on SmackDown about a half dozen years ago was fantastic. So much heat.

Done.

Mack said:

Over/Under 50 years until the next WVU regular starting quarterback is from West Virginia.

Under. Also, Cross Wilkinson just committed to Toledo. I saw him at a camp last summer and thought, “He’s an FBS guy, right?”

Mack said:

In college football, you either win and move up or you lose and move out. Holgorsen is apparently one of four who has won exactly as is appropriate for his team’s reputation.

The other three? Rocky Long at San Diego State, Mark Hudspeth at Lafayette and David Shaw at Stanford. Odd list, that one.

The 25314 said:

That is supposed to say that only 4 of 23 coaches hired before the 2011 season remain, not 2013. Holgorsen was not hired before the 2013 season, though he should have been fired after it.

Enjoy the weekend!