Welcome to the Friday Feedback, which inspires Downey, Jr., of course. Surprisingly and pleasantly eventful week during a time that doesn’t often stimulate a lot of headlines or discussions, but you left me with no choice today. Thanks for coaching up the effort I needed to get this done. That’s hall of fame stuff.

Onto the Feedback. As always, comments appear as posted. In other words, hold it in.

pknocker40 said:

If you really want to know who calls the plays just ask Joe Wickline

Or Shannon Dawson.

letsgomtnrs said:

My guess is, if the offense is successful this year, he leaves to be a G5 HC or an OC under a defensive minded coach. Hard to strut your stuff if you’re the OC under a HC that’s “famous” for offense or visa-versa for DC’s.

I don’t know. But looking at Jake Spavital’s resume, and knowing his wife was a gymnast here, maybe it wouldn’t hurt to drop an anchor. 

oklahoma mountaineer said:

I think he will be a good fit and an upgrade in recruiting QBs…….I agree, however, that he may not be here long term. Dana’s public perception leads me to believe he’s not a great recruiter…….and if he’s the OC and HC, I would see it as pretty hard to build that good, immediate relationship. Spavital did not stay at A&M very long and the circumstances that caused the 2 QBs to transfer either was his doing or at least happened on his watch…….

That said, I thought Tony Gibson was a good recruiter and that was it……shows what I know

Jake will be 32 when the season starts. There’s no way you’re good as that job when you’re 28 and coaching Jon Football and calling plays for the first time and recruiting in the SEC.

ffejbboc said:

So what happens to Burchett? Is he retained in a different capacity? Will Mark Scott continue to coach the special teams? The Mountaineers ability to defend the return was decent, but WV’s punt and kickoff offense was horrid. Punt return might have netted negative yardage this year.

That’s a good question about Burchett. The Mountaineers really like him, and here we were thinking he’d get the bump from G.A. to assistant after Ron Crook departed — and that is finally official. Teams are getting a 10th assistant in the undefined future, so he might have to twiddle his thumbs or work at Walgreens for a while or jump to somewhere foreign. I do still believe all the defensive assistants will be back — or welcomed back — but I think it’ll be interesting to see if the duties remain the same on special teams. Remember, Scott is the coordinator but assistants have specific responsibilities under that umbrella.

StraightOuttaNorthCentral said:

Recruiting them is only half the equation. Developing them once they are here is a bigger deal. And getting the right kind of guy who is willing to be coached, willing to work, willing to learn (that is, who is a more likely to develop into what the offense requires) has to feed back into recruiting. It’s not just physical attributes, stats, and stars. Just ask Ford Childress.

I don’t think that’s wrong, but I’m not sure that’s going to keep the crowd quiet, either.

MontanaEer Aannnnnnnnnnnnnsaid:

“’How’ should never matter as much as ‘who.’” This is the reality we need to face, re QB recruiting. We may indefinitely be in the position of bringing in transfers, via JC or other FBS route. Hell, maybe even FCS.

I have a similar approach to golf: It’s not how, it’s how many.

Diddybops said:

I simply state that Oklahoma was using an offensive strategy that worked well against aggressive man-to-man defense. First of all, they were forcing a defensive switch over and over, to get a big on a guard on the top of the key and driving past him. Namely Adrian, and that puts him in a tough spot against quick point guard. I feel an adjustment should have been made to stop this from happening. Secondly if a team is shooting terrible from the outside, and you can’t stop the drives and the layups and the alley oops, why not play 2-3 zone to stop the penetration? Huggs is the hall of famer not me, but it seemed pretty obvious what our opponent was being successful at, and I’m just a guy on the couch.

I would agree except that WVU has no problem watching Adrian guard someone quicker. Huggins thinks he has the footwork to do it. And apart from the Oklahoma game, and maybe parts of K-State, that’s been largely true. I also wonder how much time the Mountaineers have spent on the 2-3 in practice this season. Actually, that’s a question I might ask.

smeer said:

guys aren’t getting in front and taking charges anymore

That does seem true, but I wonder if that’s not just a way to avoid the fouls or to take advantage of the way officials are honoring a defender’s right to defend vertically. Just thinking about it, how often is a WVU defender square with a driving defender? It’s usually a chase from the side with help coming from an angle or a shot-blocker waiting. This is another question I might have to ask.

Foul Shot said:

I have never liked the after the fact blame game Huggs plays. Such as when the game goes bad and he says that the team was not doing what was expected. My reaction was that this is what in game timeouts are for. Now we hear of bad practices, guys not working hard enough before or after practice and on off days. A couple years ago some guys were asked to move on. Maybe some changes are due again? Someone mentioned 12 games are left. Kansas on Tues is a great time to try to get these “red flags” Mike mentioned turned around. But, a few weeks ago Huggs was wondering if this was his best WVU team. My thought coming in was that Adrian is the supposed star, that was a red flag. Yes, the guy hustles, does his thing on the press, has been an unquestionably upstanding citizen for WVU hoops, but does not project as the star who will take us deep into March. I hope he and his teammates prove this whiny keyboard basketball analyst wrong.

In defense of Huggins, that was not new laundry he was pinning on the line. I think it got the most attention this time. And you have to understand the way he plants seeds for stories. That “best team yet” was with the ESPNU crew right at the start of conference play. It created a talking point. He’s clever. (Aside: WVillustrated and I are the only two covering road games. Everyone else is watching videos or listening to interviews without the ability to ask questions. They still have to produce content, so they’re using what they can get their eyes and hands on, but since it’s limited, you’re going to have stories like this that are larger as a result. Think about this: About 20 news outlets cover home games. Consider the variety of content they can provide. Now cut the manpower by 90 percent for road games, but keep the production at the same level for home games. There’s virtually no variety.) 

Bill said: 

Turn out the lights. The party is over. Familiarity breeds contempt. The refs are under pressure from Big 12 coaches to make calls. Plus, big 12 coaches have figured the press out. Even freshmen guards have no trouble with the press. Just get ready for March when WVU pays teams that are not familiar with the “Press WV” brand of basketball. Just hope the refs lets them play.

You all know where I stand on the officiating part of this, but I have to throw a flag on suggestions teams have figured out the press. It’s really not hard to figure out. It’s just hard to play against it. I happen to think WVU wasn’t good at it for two games. Kept fouling, didn’t trap, played very hesitantly. Those are not ingredients for what had been a winning recipe. And I’m not sure where it’s at right now, either. It’s not like the press was the key against Kansas. If WVU can’t back alley jump Texas A&M, which hasn’t seen this, then it’s something about which to wonder.

Rugger said:

Esa was much better v non-con schedule than he has been v Big XII competition I hope he proves me wrong but I think he’s Esa, the Tin Man….no heart.

Oh, wow. Wow.

Shoot4show said:

I think I see where Rugger was going. Tin Man? Kansas up next? There’s no place like home… at least that’s what we’re all hoping.

Oh. My bad.

jtmountaineer said:

Kid’s a sophomore. It’s pretty unfair that the one-and-dones of the world lead us to believe every college athlete arrives fully formed. We don’t get those players, and even if it means we aren’t Duke or Kentucky, I’d rather cheer for the guys we get for three and four years while they grow and become men. Sorry, but that’s part of the pleasure I get out of WVU sports.

I mean, he’s not bad!

JAL said:

Perhaps basketball players have slumps like baseball players do. Just have to play through them.

They do. And they do.

Rugger said:

My plan is to quit long enuf to get approval from mom then relapseHow r the kids and Snoop?

…ok…

Rugger said:

Sorry all. I was multi tasking and typed this here instead of a text to my sister.

Ah.

Neil Cohen said:

My email to ESPN:
Dick VItale was so obsessed with Josh jackson of Kansas that he disrespected WVU and Esa Ahmad. At the end of the game, he kept raving about Jackson. He then said it was a shame Kansas lost, since a win would have been an opportunity for Jackson to be showcased. But, WVU had a very solid, very deserved win, 85-69, and Ahmad outscored Jackson 27-22 with several athletic plays himself. Praising Jackson is fine. He may well be a lottery pick. But, saying it’s too bad WVU won is completely losing your objectivity.

Leave the man alone!

avb31 said:

I know I will be in the minority here, but I like Vitale and think it was awesome he called the game. He’s damn near 80 years old. He isn’t calling irrelevant games with irrelevant programs. I look at it as a sign of progress.

While he was probably overzealous is his praise of Jackson, he was very complimentary of us as well. I bet KU fans are were sick of the love showered on Adrian, which was awesome. I also loved the fact that he said we had been too good a program for too long to rush the court for beating Kansas. That’s high praise!

I think you better know what you’re getting going in, or it’s going to change your experience. I always think of him as more of an ombudsman or curator than anything else. Also, there was no court rushing, and the area immediately around the broadcast table was surrounded by security … which probably isn’t a coincidence. That’s clout.

Sid Brockman said:

Yeah, I watched the game after coming home from it, and couldn’t get over Vitale’s obsession with Jackson. Then I read a recap on CBT, where the writer said Jackson’s game was a “mixed bag.” You know, since he didn’t guard Ahmad all night. Dickie V is overrated. He’s a paper tiger. He spews the same talking points all night (FTs were a “disaster” for WVU this year, while ignoring Kansas is worse from the line and WVU made theirs all night) and talks about everything but the game he’s watching.

I’m with you, hoot. Bill Self is my man-crush. I love that guy.

The funny thing is Jackson was hailed as an elite defender upon entering college. Ahmad was not impressed.

Michael Lucas said:

Don’t worry Mike. I brought up our poor shooting once and was called a troll.

Player effort is a coaching issue. Always has been. I’m not bashing Huggs. I’m saying there’s ample room for criticism. You can’t get destroyed by Kansas State and Oklahoma, then slaughter two of the best teams in the nation and claim effort was the reason for the losses, then claim effort level is some kind of pixie dust we just weren’t exposed to enough. Huggs needs to establish consistent effort levels from his teams. I know he’s above the fray, so to speak, but if he’s a young guy no one ever heard of, this team’s inconsistent effort is the stuff that gets young coaches fired. Not Huggs, mind you. A young coach with talent and schemes, but manages to lose inexplicably several times per year and when it matters most.

I understand the points you were trying to make, and they don’t alarm me. I think it’s a discussion people are probably not eager to initiate but content to have. It’s what we — and by we, I mean all of you — do best. I’m not sure you ever said Huggins is a lousy coach, but you did infer he could have done a better job, and to be fair, he’s sort of said the same. I have to think 36-year old Robby Higgins isn’t getting canned if he’s 16-4 and ranked in the top 20 at, say, Ohio University, though. But could he handle the team better through the travel and the schedule and the way the style of play taxes players and the way opponents picked apart the defense? I think so. But has he? I think so, too.

jtmountaineer said:

Still waiting for a * reason* or evidence-based argument for why effort is more on coaches than players. You just said because it is.

“More” on coaches than players? Nah. But is it, on some level, on the coaches? Of course.

hoot said:

Granted Mike.. I just get irritated with the “sky-is-falling” thing.
Even the best teams (and believe we are one of those this year) have off nights and/or shortcomings.
I guess the newcomers need to walk before they can run. These are kids we are talking about, and if ML thinks he can get them to play a perfect game every night, he needs to get a coaching job. Sorry.

Yeah, but I never read it as this-is-the-end stuff. Seemed like an invested observation, maybe with a bit of “Or else!” attached to it, and it was certainly a good conversation piece here, which I’ll never dismiss. Nor would I dismiss the disagreement it produces. Also, is Mr. Lucas the newcomer? He has 128 comments since Oct. 19, so he’s at least been active.

CC Team said:

WV needs Esa to be better than he has been lately. He doesn’t have to be the star (Carter), or even the guy the offense runs through (Adrian), but he does need to be an option that contributes. He has not been that. His first shot against OK was a 2 footer that went so strong it didn’t even touch the rim. That last pass against KSt was weak and indecisive. He needs to get his grove back. It seems he has lost his place in this team’s universe. He doesn’t have to do it all but he can’t disappear, and he can’t find that happy medium.

This was before the Kansas game, if you’re curious. Ahmad’s the only individual matchup problem WVU can throw at other teams. He has to be consistently productive on the offensive end. I think that’s a fair expectation. 

jtmountaineer said:

The only Big 12 team we have yet to play is Iowa State with preseason PoY Morris, a terrific point guard, to be sure, but I’ve watched Jevon Carter outplay every other point guard in the league and still not get discussed as a top PG in the conference. 9/8/9 with 1 turnover is as impressive a stat line as I’ve seen without going into double figures on any category. Add in the defense he plays and he’s a top 3 player in this league. Period.

Whew, top three! I’ll keep an eye on this. Ball control has never been an issue with him, and Huggins’ offense has never been dramatically dependent upon a show-runner, because it’s motion and all five players better be able to handle it. But the way Carter has engineered things and set up teammates and picked his spots the past five or so games has been really encouraging. Lots of points and assists and not a lot of shots or turnovers. He’s cautious and effective.

Oklahoma Mountaineer said:

To me, this team feels like the Pittsnogle team that made it to the Elite 8 – some good wins, bewildering losses, and chemistry that made it a team of destiny……my question is this – would this team beat that one??

Interesting, and I’ve actually made this observation myself before. That 2005 team was a little up and down. Started 10-0 and then was 11-6 after a five-game slide. If that team wasn’t making 3s, it was ordinarily in trouble. If this team isn’t scoring off the press, it’s ordinarily in trouble. But you could blow out that team. I don’t think this team gets blown out often if at all. If I’m putting money on it, I think this team wins, but there are some fun factors to consider. Durisseau-Collins could probably handle the pressure, but I wonder about Herber against the speed he’d see. Nichols wasn’t a very offensive player at that point, either. Then again, this team would have to deal with the 1-3-1, and if this team can’t score inside or foul line-and-in and ends up going 3-for-24 from 3, it’s a problem. I think this team keeps that team from running offense, and Gansey was really the only player who could get a ball screen and get to the basket, but I think Fisher and Pittsnogle would be good screen-and-roll or screen-and-fade options, and that could negate some advantages in half-court situations. But depth would matter and rebounding would be a significant factor.

Rugger said:

Caz should arrange a meeting with Michael L and Huggs so Michael L can straighten Huggs out on a few things. Huggs is an open-mined guy, no?

Last night, Esa showed that he has heart and I am the Scarecrow. With the thoughts I been thinkin I’ll never be a Lincoln. Happy to be wrong again. Awesome effort by our lads!!!

And this was after Kansas. Full circle. Good play.

smeer said:

so i have an engineering degree from WVU – trying to do the math 🙂

“In December, he [Hardy] hadn’t spoken with anyone on the staff in months — that ended up being mostly to do with the departure of assistant coach Ron Crook — and then he visited and committed with little fanfare. – See more at: http://www.wvgazettemail.com/sports-wvu/20170125/wvu-recruiting-lackawanna-lineman-commits-to-mountaineers#sthash.gH55NuoA.dpuf

Ron Crook ran off to Cincy on or around Jan. 7
December minus “months” means what? at least October?

RC was on staff from October to January and made no contact with this specimen?

so questions . . .

What was RC’s recruiting area? What are his most notable recruits in the program? Anybody of note in this year’s class due to RC’s efforts?

Did RC give up on his job, knowing the handwriting was on the wall with Wickline?
How long was Spavital in the mix?
Did he hightail it to Cincy because he wasn’t doing his job?

“that ended up being mostly to do with the departure of assistant coach Ron Crook”

that’s a pretty tame and loaded statement there Mr. MC

I didn’t end write the story, but I’ll take a stab at it. Hardy wasn’t a fan of the recruiting process and wanted to wait until the season was over to get into it. I don’t think Crook mailed in his recruiting responsibilities.

Karl said:

Another JUCO kid. Eight in one class is way too high. We had too much trouble getting normal four-year kids who could grow in the program this year.

It’s a big number, and Holgorsen has wanted to avoid repeating what happened with the 2013 class. The other way of looking at it is the last two classes were so big that WVU didn’t want to rush or trust some or so many of them into key roles. It’s probably a little of each. I’m not sure Hardy was a longtime goal as much as someone who was available if a little work was put into the project. Wickline was here last year, and he’s playing for his dad. But WVU really needs 2017 help at cornerback and on the defensive line, so it’s a matter of getting kids who are older and bigger and stronger and have played some decent competition or relying on redshirt freshmen and sophomores. The ones that are curious are David Sills and Dominique Maiden. They committed and enrolled before Shelton Gibson decided to leave, and WVU was looking good at receiver. WVU wants taller receivers to make plays down the field and in the red zone, but I suppose the fair question is why that help came from jucos and not high schools.

oklahoma mountaineer said:

The JCs tell two stories — the bigger one, to me, is not that we aren’t attracting talent from high school. It’s the addressing of losses from the 14 class who should now be playing a large role on the team. The second, and lesser, story is that the recruiting of HS players took a hit with Dana’s contract (or lack thereof) being used against WVU on the trail during the last 18 months. Damage done on this class at that point — if we are down on HS players next year, then I believe you have a concern.

I think the contract/job uncertainty is a pretty valid point, and one you’ll never hear from the Puskar Center.

Wayward Eer said:

In an offseason that has held it’s share of surprises, this one isn’t one of them.  While I do think that recruiting 17 & 18 year olds will lead to this type of waffling, I do have to applaud if the WVU staff was the one to say enough is enough and to move on.  I am not sure what kind of statement this makes to future recruits ( I have a 16 year old son that this would register with for about 15 minutes) but hopefully it will register with some of the high school coaches.   Recruiting is the one area where I do not begrudge the money paid to college coaches.   On the other side of this I do think that WVU is getting a pretty solid rep as a good school for receivers and the cupboard seems to be nicely stocked.  Now if we could only do something similar to CB’s!

I do think WVU was the one to tap out here. Apparently Harley has told people as much.

Sammy said:

Jajuan Seider was pretty open that it’s hard to beat FSU, Florida and Miami for the same kid. You can do it every once in awhile, but not consistently, and with Miami being “back” (supposedly, though WVU is in no position to argue) it’s tough to beat them. Seider’s thought is there are other kids who the big 3 either miss on or don’t have room for, and WVU has a great name versus all other comers and Florida has lots of talent. I still think that’s a pretty good formula, as Stedman Bailey (who wanted an offer from Florida, I think, that never came), Karl Joseph and others can attest to. But it does mean no shame in losing guys to Miami.

In any event this is a weird class, and given the contract limbo Holgorsen was in all year it’s hard to imagine that it will be an amazing class. The momentum is all too little, too late for 2017.

My only solace is the last few years there have been a few surprise guys West Virginia has pulled down late, and as Mike points out WVU has done pretty well with transfers too.

It’s weird, but I think it’s folly to pin your expectations and optimism to recruiting, but I also think you can’t argue with what happens at the places that pull in the top classes, which means maybe it isn’t too crazy to expect more or less and feel better or worse about what happens to your team after the First Wednesday in February. Maybe it’s wise to wait a year or two? I’m not very helpful today, huh?

Dino said:

Sounds to me as if this a blessing. If this guy says he’s “committed” to the Mountaineers and then shows that he is not “committed” to the Mountaineers it causes me to question whether or not he has a clue what ‘commitment’ is.

After reading this guy’s recruiting history I surmise he was not that hot of a recruit until the Mountaineers showed interest. That tells me he was a ‘project’ in need of skills and technique development in order to use his God-given talents on the football field, and if his ‘commitment’ has come into question by his own deeds then he’s probably not worth the time, expense, and effort to take-on as a project for development if he himself is not committed to doing so.

If I could I would ask this young man just a couple of questions. 1st would be “Why did you commit to West Virginia?” and 2nd would be “why did you decide to not honor your commitment?”

In any event, based on what little I know about him and his behavior, I really like and fully support the response to this guy’s behavior by our coaching staff.

OK. But here’s a quiz: Are you upset if he comes around a picks WVU on signing day? It’s not happening, but if he exercised more waffling and brings his talents to WVU, are you in or out?

phillip said:

when i was in high school, there were few romantic relationships among my peers that were serious enough to be described as “committed.” the informally formal description of paired couples was “going with” each other.

in essence, it meant you liked each other enough to date, but weren’t ready to call the significant other a “boyfriend” or “girlfriend,” which would imply something less fluid and more serious, forsaking all others and all that.

that’s how i’ve come to view recruiting. given that we’re dealing with high schoolers, how serious can a “commitment” be? until they actually sign that letter of intent, i figure they’re all just “going with” a school’s football program.

phillip!

tls62pa said:

South Florida recruiting is a different animal. Remember, these kids change high schools like they change their underwear. They are brought up to be individuals and not loyal to a specific group. Harley kept playing with fire and our coaches said he wasn’t worth missing out a commit on. I’m bummed about the way he had his recruiting play out, but we prepared ourselves to move on.

I think that’s a pretty good point. And here’s one I need you to consider: WVU hasn’t been successful down there for a while.

Clarence Oveur said:

Holgo has plenty of shortcomings as a coach…but at least he’s fun and good for a laugh.

His hair’s been likened to Phil Collins, Big Ern McCracken and now McConaughey. This is a Thing.

Recruiting.

Dino said:

McConaughey is a really good actor, I like his movies……. but there’s not an ‘actor’ known to man that could replicate one of Holgorsen’s pissed-off hiss fits on the sidelines. No way they could make that bald spot glow red like he does.

I’d like to see screen tests, though.

StraightOuttaNorthCentral said:

McConaughey’s movie hair is a little too kempt. Needs to get a little wilder, especially the strands up top, to match Dana. Still, it’s good enough to deserve a hair & makeup Oscar nom.

It’s like McConaughey came out of the hair and makeup room in Full Holgorsen, and the director said, “No. It’s too real,” and they turned it down to what made it on screen.

The 25314 said:

The skullet is as much a part of Dana as questionable clock management, settling for field goals, staff turnover, and unrealized potential.

Enjoy the weekend!

P.S.

d said:

Rumor: Dann White is still surviving and hiding out in Matthews, NC!

That being said: This team is the best and OMLY remedy for a case of “Slipping Skyler Fever”, a disease that reportedly attacked many members of the Mountaineer Nation.
While occasionally appearing to suffer from chronic jet-lag, Hugs’ boys otherwise are one of the sharpest teams I have seen in a number of seasons.
No surprises there on the jet-lag, As long as we remain the “red-headed stepchild in the Big Twelve, we are relegated to having our schedules stacked to the older member team’s advantage. Do you reckon?
Thanks to all who have sent their best wishes, and to everyone else for that matter!
Dann

Dann!