Welcome to the Friday Feedback, which always starts on the front foot. The same just cannot be said about West Virginia, and specifically its offense, in the past few weeks.

I had an idea for this week, and I would attempt to figure out how and why the Mountaineers just can’t get going early on in games. And then the formidable Bill West, who apparently saw what I saw, jumped on the idea. He asked Dana Holgorsen for his impressions of the running game at the start of recent games.

It’s not good. I didn’t like that last week. It was an emphasis to try and get the run game going, and for the last two weeks, we did a poor job of that in the first quarter. (Junior defensive tackle Andrew Billings) No. 75 for Baylor had something to do with that. That dude is a good player. With that said, we tried to get the run game going early. It wasn’t good in the first quarter. I thought we rebounded, and it was better in the second quarter and then it progressed in the second half. We have to keep doing some things whether it’s play calls, schemes or early motivation in order to play better up front in the run game. That definitely has to happen.

There we go. Understand Holgorsen doesn’t waste much time on plays and ideas during the week that he doesn’t think will work in the games. He obsesses over film and picks out, like eight plays, maybe 10 and I doubt a dozen, that he and his coaches believe in that week. That’s what the team works on throughout the week. It’s like my parents touring Italy for two weeks and packing only enough to fill a backpack.

So when it doesn’t work? Uhoh, right?

I then asked if the aforementioned sluggishness of the run game contributed to the offense not starting well. Whoops!

We scored against Baylor. That was a long pass, right? The running game against Oklahoma was decent early. I don’t want to sit here and point the finger at our o-line and running game for us not being where we need to be offensively or as a team right now. Last week, we just didn’t get it going. We missed a couple of passes that would have changed the outlook of quote on quote ‘not starting very well.’ We will keeping working at it.

Oh, man. He repeated what I said and used quote-unquote! But here’s the issue there. WVU did score early against Baylor, and that was a play that went bad in the Bears secondary. It still counts, but it’s an outlier, if only because it’s the only first-quarter touchdown in the past four games. WVU couldn’t run early last week and had to pass, and receivers couldn’t hang onto balls — and we can agree the deep ball is not WVU’s strength, right?

In those two first quarters, the Mountaineers have 60 combined yards rushing. But when did WVU look its most dangerous, when did it seem most capable of editing the script offensively in the past four games? The end of the first quarters against Oklahoma and Baylor, when the run was working and scoring drives bridged the first and second quarters. Those scores tied the Oklahoma game 7-7 and got WVU on the board down 17-7 against Baylor. The first quarters against Oklahoma State and TCU were hard to watch.

There’s a thread. In the first quarters in the losing streak, the Mountaineers have rushed for 140 yards and averaged 3.04 yards per carry. On 10 third-down runs, they’ve moved the chains just four times. They’re being outscored 48-7, and that’s as big a reason they haven’t led in Big 12 play. They’ve been tied for 3:29, and if you add the 0-0 ties to start the game, they’ve trailed for 212:49 of the past 240 minutes of football.

I don’t know that WVU is going to become Kansas State and do what the Wildcats attempted to do last night, but I know it’s possible to use the run to slow down an explosive opponent, and I do know that’s what the Mountaineers have tried to do the past two games. WVU’s offense is tethered, but it’s also 3-9 in Big 12 play when both teams score 30 or more points, and that includes a 1-9 record since beating Baylor and Texas to start the Big 12 experience in 2012.

“In this league, if you don’t learn how to win a shootout, you can’t win,” he said.

He’s right, and since joining the Big 12 for the 2012 season, WVU is 3-9 in conference games both teams score 30 points. That includes a 2-0 start against Baylor and Texas the first season.

The Mountaineers have been above 30 just once this season, and that was a 62-38 loss at Baylor that shrinks a little when you consider one score was late in the fourth quarter and another one followed that on a kickoff return touchdown.

And then the Mountaineers (3-4, 0-4 Big 12) scored 10 points in last week’s loss to TCU.

This is now the third straight week they’ve prepared for a Big 12 opponent and harped on matching scores, and though Texas Tech isn’t quite the overall outfit Baylor and TCU are because the defense is about as bad as it gets, the Red Raiders (5-4, 2-4) enter Saturday’s noon Fox Sports 1 game at Mountaineer Field with an offense every bit as dangerous.

They don’t have the same quality at quarterback, running back or receiver, but they have winning talent at every spot, and they can score. That ought to frighten WVU, which has tried these past two weeks to linger by being efficient and resilient on offense, which is to say making the most of its chances by doing what it does best when it matters most.

That means running the ball. This is the team’s strength. It’s how it moves down the field and picks up first downs and keeps the other offense on the sideline or on the back foot.

Onto the Feedback. As always, comments appear as posted. In other words, pick your spots.

Dann White said:

7:52 is a kindred spirit of mine.

Yeah Caz, I noticed he (Dana) gets this look on his face while your asking the question, then he disses you when answering. He would do well to drop that shit right now and just coach his ass off; he has less and less good will to trade on as time goes by.
Funny isn’t it? I always thought him to be a kind of laid back guy at the podium, I guess low job security sort of drains the joviality out of a guy.

I didn’t notice it at first, and I really don’t pay attention to it, but I guess I also can’t help but recognize it now given the way people keep pointing out. I suppose it looks weird, but I honestly don’t think he’s lighting me up or that he’s doing it on purpose or out of vengeance. It’s possible he doesn’t like my questions. And as always, I think he’s as high or as low as the scoreboard lets him go.  

dubdog said:

Dana has been here long enough to have a QB in the system. He has zero…4 years and we are being lead by a community college QB!! I’m sure Skyler is a great kid..hard working, big heart etc..but he can’t lead a Big 12 offense. Dana has NOTHING to build a Big 12 football team on. He knows the 2 kids behind Howard are not the answer or thet would have seen action by now. Dana not only needs to go…I believe he knows it and would be relieved. He is over his head.

Soap box: WVU stated it needed a junior college quarterback in the 2014 class. Specific-need situation given William Crest would be, at best, a true sophomore and everyone else post-Clint Trickett would be new to the program. A “community college QB” would at least have seasoning, and Howard, if nothing else, is mature. He’s lived, and WVU liked that about him. But look at the options from 2014 and tell me who was better. It looks like the Mountaineers got the best option — whether pro style or dual-threat — that year.  The only other name that’s really even playing is former LSU QB Jerrard Randall at Arizona, and he’s been just OK, too.

Oklahoma Mountaineer said:

Everything I read on internet tried to pin this on the receivers……and there’s some truth to catching a ball that you should catch.

That said, they aren’t getting the balls where they need to be on the deep balls consistently — they can’t trust it to be where they can catch it.

I’ve heard much discussion on the intermediate game, or lack thereof, being a culprit to the whole offensive problem. I think the guy is too short to do it — he can’t see over the Oline/Dline good enough to make those throws and his arm is not strong enough to throw the dart to overcome his lack of height.

Hard for me to fathom how bad Crest must be, in HCDH opinion, to not have taken this job away from him.

It’s not all on receivers, but sometimes you need to make your quarterback look better than he actually is. I think there’s something to the idea his height limits some plays and causes accuracy issues on others. That can complicate throws and timing on throws over the middle. I think his accuracy is a concern on other tosses. Consider the tunnel screen. He’s throwing a parallel pass to a player moving toward him. That’s … that’s tricky. And that’s a pass Shelton Gibson may very well “fight” and tip into the air. But we’ve seen Howard flash the arm on intermediate perimeter throws that require a straight line, and he was hitting that out pass to the slot receivers Thursday. 

WVU77 said:

I wonder why no one mentions Jim Tressel for a possible coaching job considering his close connection to President Gee. Not saying I want him at WVU, if a vacancy does present itself, I’m just wondering why its never mentioned. I’m pretty sure his 5 year “show cause” order from the NCAA is nearing and end too and a team could take him without ramification.

It expires next December, but he’s also suspended for the first five games plus any conference championship and bowl game during his first season back. The school that hires him — and he’s said he does not want to return to coaching — could appeal, though. If only WVU had some friends in the NCAA offices…

Dann White said:

I am waiting for the shouts of “Tom Bradley for head coach”; and I am very surprised it hasn’t already started. Bradley’s presence was credited with most of the visible!e improvements last year; though I suspest he was hired more in a mentor role for Dana.
Generally though, fellows of Tom’s age group are not at their prime as coaches. No, I don’t have any statistics to back that up, but it seems that the guys in their thirties and early forties have the best temperament and drive to lead a group of alpha males to the water AND make them drink.
I am also learning that good assistants aren’t automatically good head coaches. Canyou guess where I picked up that bit of wisdom (??)

Apart from opening his office door for players so they could talk whenever they felt like they needed to talk, I’ve never heard anyone credit Bradley for anything that happened last season. 

Mack said:

Tom Bradley added more evidence to the fact that the best job in the world is the one where you’re not directly responsible for anything.

Nice work, if you can get it.

Dann White said:

I think one of the things that the Bradley hire illuminates is the belief in the Luck Administration that throwing money around in sort of an aimless fashion MIGHT actually make a difference. We hired Joe Deforest away from OSU for a half of a million bucks, only to realize that as coaches to; Joe was no Urban Meyer.
I have always believed that he was hired to give Dana a buddy on the staff. Must have been a good buddy at 500 large.
I have wondered since why we didn’t pony up to keep Bedenbaugh around, he has certainly earned his pay in Oklahoma.
I have no complaint about Bradley per set, but it would’ve made more sense had we actually given him a role to play, he could’ve been paid to do all of the administrative things we are little more than niggling details to guys like Dana, or, we might have made him a coordinator, though defense was the only need and we were definitely hurrying away from conventional configurations in the direction of the odd stack,
As good of a coach that Brad is/might be, we really did little more in retaining him than keep him in the ranks of the employed. Where is the tangible benefit we were left with? I am curious. Mike, Mack, anyone??
Gosh, we need a win, boys and girls. There is little about these games to hang our blogging hat on.

Well, I did not expect to spend a lot of time on Tom Bradley this week. It wasn’t a bad deal for anyone last year. WVU got Bradley back on the sideline. He’s a coach, not a commentator. Bradley parlayed that into a defensive coordinator job in the Pac-12, and WVU, we can assume, parlayed that into a perception its coach can land a big-name coach, which was important given some struggles hiring and retaining assistants through the years. It wasn’t all football, and you should know that since he was an even-front coach and Tony Gibson, who was already named the defensive coordinator, is an odd-front coach. You can try to retain guys all you want, but it’s ultimately up to them. Bedenbaugh has a better job. Bradley has a better job. No one’s to blame for any of that.

Mack said:

Assuming WVU beats Kansas and Iowa State, the season has always hinged on how it does against Texas Tech, Texas, and Kansas State. It still does.

I always thought this season was three four-game seasons. I assumed the non-conference was a  gimme and Kansas would offer no resistance. I understood Oklahoma-Oklahoma State-Baylor-TCU would offer challenges, so I figured the difference between a great season and a good one would be found in Texas Tech-Texas-Iowa State-Kansas State. I think that’s held true, but we can sub “great” for “good” and “good” for “bad.”

WVU77 said:

I agree with JP. I think its 50/50 chance we could lose out, which would be a very unfortunate legacy for this group of players. I don’t think they’re the worst team to don a WVU uniform, but they could have the distinction of being the only to WVU team to go o-for in their conference. I just hope the recent 4 losses will not affect the Coach, and by extension the Players, to the point that they can’t mentally recover. If we’d have played our schedule in a different order we might be 7-5 or 8-4 even.

I think there is a 0 percent chance WVU loses out. Zero. Kansas is really bad, guys. 

Rugger said:

Going 0-4 vs 4 teams with a combined 1 loss sucks but you can’t fire a coach on those four losses.

We looked great in the “pre-season” games.

The 5 games in front of Dana right now are an ideal test case to see what he is made of. My predictions are always wrong as y’all know so I’m just going to butter up some popcorn and watch.

Does anybody find it strange that we played the best 4 teams in the conference in our first 4 conference games whereas the 3 undefeateds and OU have not played one another yet?

This year’s schedule makes me fee like the Welcome Stranger.

I get asked this question all the time: “If WVU loses to (blank), is Dana done?” No one’s fired because of one loss. Al Golden didn’t get canned because of the Clemson debacle. As for the schedule, the Big 12’s really good at setting the table for television. Acting on it? That’s a different story, isn’t it? The schedule, as Rugger explains, has the top four teams playing one another this month. But only Baylor plays on the final Saturday, which is absurd. They put that much thought into back-loading the schedule and then put one meh game (against Texas) on the weekend that sees all the other conference title games? The Big 12 should be doing everything possible, with appreciable help from Fox, to present this arrangement of games as a conference playoff in the absence of a conference championship game, and I don’t see that happening at the moment. 

Grumpy said:

Don’t like our chances given the past Nov. records Dana has had. Banged up physically and mentally now. I have a feeling this was one of those schedules while on paper it and 0-4 stretch it could easily contribute to another 2 losses that might not have been a loss normally. If Dana can pull out a 4-1 finish he will have earned my confidence back.

…are we sure WVU is that banged up physically? Mentally, absolutely. Physically? I wonder, and I wonder if it’s unique. I won’t ignore the issues, but I have to wonder if it’s that dire. I know losing Joseph is bad and Chestnut is one hit away from being lost for the season, but is the rest of it so extenuating? WVU’s had three open Saturdays, too. (Also, this is exactly what I was talking about previously when people would say, “Well, WVU should win its final five games.” You’re not the same after you play those four teams in succession. It’s not possible.)

Ccteam said:

The offense will have to score a pile of points to beat Texas Tech. Mahomes will shred the secondary WV is now fielding. I think WV should be an underdog in that one. TX has talent, more than WV. can they put it together in Morgantown? We will see. Iowa St. is never a pushover. K St. Has a better coach. Only Against Kansas is WV a clear favorite. Dana needs 3 wins in there somewhere. It is attainable, but it is going to be tough.

…are we sure Texas Tech is an offensive juggernaut? The road-home splits tell a story — check out the Mahomes splits — and Lubbock is a quizzically hard place to play. The performance at Kansas and the check-out at Oklahoma make me suspicious.

Down South said:

Honestly, this season is one half of one game of football different than I anticipated. If we play a better first half against Oklahoma State, we win there and we are 4-3. I expected us to be 4-3. If we were, no one would feel any different than they do now because we just took consecutive beat downs. I never thought this team was good enough to go on the road and beat Oklahoma, Baylor or TCU without something crazy happening in those games. If you give us 2012 Geno, I don’t think we win those games either. It’s just hard to beat good teams on the road in college football. I thought there were some questionable coaching decisions in the TCU game. Things like trying to score when you have 1:10 on the clock, no timeouts and you are on your opponent’s 10 yard line. Or throwing a forty yard pass on 3rd and 4 at a place on the field where you are obviously going to go for it on 4th down if you don’t pick up enough yardage on 3rd down.

Having said that, we are a better team than Texas Tech and they have to come to Morgantown. We are a better team than Texas and they have to come to Morgantown. Texas is going to be up and down, but nothing they have done suggests to me that they will come here and beat us. We should beat Kansas anywhere. Going to Kansas State will be a tricky game, but we are the better team. We should beat Iowa State here, but I have to think that Paul Rhoads will be coaching his last game and that worries me a little.

I think the right coaching staff can win big here. It isn’t as easy as winning at some other places, but it can certainly be done. At this point, though, WVU is not as good as Oklahoma, Baylor or TCU. Those are three really good programs with established and innovative coaches. My gut says we win out. The schedule sets up to give us the kind of momentum to do that.

A few thoughts: How does 2007 WVU do in that four-game span? What happens if WVU loses these next two games? Why can’t Iowa State beat Oklahoma State in Ames on Nov. 14 … right after the Cowboys play TCU? The Cyclones might have found a QB all of a sudden, and Mike Warren is a revelation at running back. I feel like someone’s spoiling this four-team round robin, and OSU seems like the must susceptible team.

Kevin said: 

I don’t post much these days because you guys summarize my thoughts better than I can.

I would agree that WVU was unlucky in how the schedule came together and that the teams that were favorites coming into the season probably benefitted from the fact that conferences without championship game usually backload the schedule with the meaningful games happening late in the season. I think all of us thought going 0-3 on trips to Oklahoma, TCU and Baylor was a possible and even likely outcome.

I don’t think we really know if Oklahoma St. is any good or not (yet), but I’m struggling with the fact that WVU wasn’t competitive in 3 of those losses and couldn’t get out of its own way in the Oklahoma St. loss. I don’t expect WVU to contend for the Big 12 title every year, but expect WVU to have a program that wins 8 or 9 games most years, doesn’t look so sloppy and competes well against the upper tier most years.

Last thought – usually when coaching changes work, the change happens quickly. Borrowing from Mike’s theory about being who you are at some point – Does Holgy = .500 record? Just doesn’t feel like that turn is right around the corner when you look at next year’s roster.

Here’s here I get confused: I thought WVU was competitive against Oklahoma and Baylor, though Baylor’s explosiveness and its final scores do a lot to disguise and disarm the idea of competitiveness. TCU’s a little harder for me to sell, because I don’t buy the idea the Mountaineers left 28 points on the field — teams that assume that should at least have a history of, you know, scoring 28 points first. Still, WVU didn’t quit and moved the ball in the second half but had no business kicking field goals. Again, this team riddles me, but I suppose the point is Holgorsen’s tenure so far has allowed for that murkiness. Also, post more. 

avb31 said:

It wasn’t totally unexpected to lose those games. But, it was disheartening to lose them in the way we lost them. Error prone, and not really competitive. It’s also disheartening to realize that we are much further away from contention now than we were 4 years ago. Not a lot of growth.

Now, I’d agree with errors, and I’d ask you this: Remember when you were growing up and your mom and dad would have you stand next to the refrigerator and back up against the wall and they’d take a pencil and jab at your head and make you flinch but they were just marking how tall you were? Imagine we were doing that the past few years with Big 12 WVU. What’s that wall looking like?

The 25314 said:

If Dana wins out, including bowl, he should get a three year extension with a modified flat $5M buyout.

If he wins out and loses the bowl, I’d give him a two year extension with flat $4M buyout.

If he wins 7 regular seasons games, I wouldn’t be thrilled about keeping him, but I’d give him a 2 year extension with a flat $2M buyout, no matter what happens in the bowl.

If he wins 6 regular season games, I would fire him.

Tidy.

The 25314 said:

I don’t know that I’d keep him at 7 wins, but if I did, he would be on notice that it’s 8 regular seasons wins next year or bust.

You lose you grip on me here. It’s not a bad idea, but I’m against giving people automatics. The sport is too volatile and too often at the mercy of variables for me to give an if-then scenario in a matter as serious as that. I may be different, though.

Wayward Eer said: 

The leadership of this team ( coaches and players) is really going to be important over the next two weeks. I really want to believe in this group but need to see that edge/ effort/effecientcy through all 4 quarters that we haven’t seen yet this year.

I’ve got something in tomorrow’s paper that will color things in for you.

smeer said:

the skylar experiment also is being defined by this very non-normal schedule

the decision to go with skylar at the beginning of the season was pretty much made by how skylar separated himself – and 90% or more of us here were buying that although wondering

and the first three games it played out according to script

then comes October – most brutal month in the history of the program – and the question is – how do you throw a rookie – who couldn’t beat out Skylar – into that mix – with three on the road and one at night?

now with seven games played and no seasoning for the newbies, you still gotta keep your eggs in the skylar basket – because HCDH has to win NOW – not next year

all that said, I was most disappointed that Crest or ANYBODY did not get mop-up duty in any of these games sans OSU – and especially in the 4th quarter of TCU

Counterpoint: What good does it do to Dana to have Chuganov play four years if Dana’s somewhere else? You always play the player who helps you win. That, quite apparently at this point, is Howard. Which transitions to the final point: Who is Howard to be ceding snaps to anyone in blowouts? Doesn’t he need the reps? And is Crest going to take those reps and do something seismic with them?

Rugger said:

I figured out why we have no qb’s. Baylor has them all.

Indeed. This guy’s a receiver!

Grumpy said:

Rugger,

Was thinking same thing. How is it that every year Baylor just reloads at QB, and heck even the backups are amazing. With that said I would rather go against this guy. He cant run. Baylor makes it look easy.

I don’t know that he can’t run as much as Baylor can’t let him run. If he gets hurt, they’re toast. If he’s able to play and progress, the Bears remain a contender. I’m curious to see how teams scheme against this. KSU loaded up to stop the run and paid no mind to Stidham as a runner. You couldn’t do that to Russell. 

BobbyHeenan said:

The Baylor FR can play, but I thought with Russell they could win a national championship with a little luck on defense. That offense is the best I’ve seen since probably the Cam Newton Auburn years.

The pressure opposing offenses feel to “keep up” with that scoring has to be immense. It’s got to mess with the heads of the coaches (play calling) and players (trying to do too much).

Just saying, K-State and its third-string QB (who might not be as good as the receiver who played QB for a spell) went up and down a few times. Baylor’s season begins when Oklahoma or Oklahoma State or TCU is up double digits and Briles tells Stidham to go win it.

Down South said:

Just saw a guy in the K State sideline wearing a jersey with Knoblauch on the back. Feel like the Big XII is trolling this blog.

No way. Tell me that’s true. (Also, I breached the sanctity of the Taboo and wrote about The Knoblauch Theory, in less colloquial terms, this week. Turns out there’s something to it.)

Eric said:

Unfortunately, I missed the chat. Mike, I know there is a huge focus on the football team’s struggles, but I am curious, how surprised are you with this year’s men’s soccer team? After last year’s near miss in making the NCAA tourney and with the returning talent, it is surprising to me that the team has seemingly regressed.

I’m shocked. Marlon never talks big, but he talked big in the preseason, so I was inclined to believe him when he said this could be his best team. If matches were 80 or even 85 minutes long, the record would be much, much better. They still have some great young talent, but they have some really good seniors, too. 

Down South said:

Is that the first time an opposing fan invaded the chat? That was awesome.

Bloggers Without Borders. It’s real.

smeer said:

Mack for the win.

And please turn the Mack/Dann version of Planes, Trains and Automobiles into a movie – especially now that Masked Rider wants to ride along and sing Country Roads.

how about all Tier 4ers ponie up $20 bucks for gas and a GoPro that sits on the dash the whole way?

I feel like we could find a sponsor pretty quickly. A Kickstarter may do it, too.

BobbyHeenan said:

I think Mack riding with Dann would be like The Iron Sheik riding with Havksaw Jim Duggan to make a spot show in Morgantown. What could possibly go wrong?

Nothing. Everything. But you’d watch.

Masked Rider said:

Come Sabado, I’ll be laughing all the way Mahome?

Is Mack an alumnus or a townie?

Guns Up!

He’s THE alumnus.

Mr Burns said:

Herb Base…kid could flat out fly…WVU never gave him a look…same for Guy Fawkes.

Unfair on every level.

glibglub said:

Yeah, but Guy Fawkes never lived up to his explosive potential.

So true.

SheikYbuti said:

Yeah, Guy Fawkes was a bit of a dud.

Enjoy the weekend!