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Friday Feedback

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Welcome to the Friday Feedback, which brings to you a sign of the times. Yesterday, we saw WVU and Pitt rekindle the Backyard Brawl, and we thanked Twitter for the role it played in the saga. With games come contracts, and one between these two had potential fir it to be interesting for a variety of reasons, mostly potential contentious ones. Yet the eight-page pact for the four-game series is pretty pedestrian, and only one thing stood out to me — and it’s a 2015 thing, for sure. The spotlighted section above is, near as I can tell, a first in a WVU contract.

And come to think of it, you better have it, right? Shane Lyons thinks so.

“That’s just a protection for both of us,” Lyons told me. “The game is seven years away. Over 10 years, a lot can change — just look back 10 years from now, what it looked like then and what it looks like now. So that language is in there. But I think from our standpoint — and I can’t speak for Pitt — this is a game that’s important for us regardless of conference realignment. One of the things you have to look at when doing this is what can happen in the future, what possibilities are out there for one reason or another? Obviously, conference expansion is one of those topics. I think we’re in a climate right now where it’s going to continue to be discussed. I hope we never need it. It’s in there as language to protect for of us, but that is new language for us.”

We’ve been over this, but the more that time passes and the closer we get to the end of these media rights deals the more likely it is that the current conference configurations change. If the ACC, for example, grows and goes with nine conference games, then maybe Pitt needs a non-conference breather somewhere in the series. If, hypothetically, the Big 12 loses members and WVU, again hypothetically, is in another conference, maybe a game against Pitt isn’t in the best interest of the Mountaineers.

There are a lot of maybes out there, so this is in there.

Onto the Feedback. As always, comments appear as posted. In other words, arrive in style.

Mackstradamus said:

44 points is explosion enough for me. I enjoyed it.

I’d also be morally remiss if I didn’t point out that the Wolf of Wall Street bit on the jumbotron was fire and flames.

Right again!

Dann White said:

Can’t help but notice the difference in Dana since his first seasons as a head coach. He seems so much more self-assured with the press and much more to the point. I believe its safe to say he is one of the more personable Head FB coaches I’ve seen on our sideline now, without that obligatory “Aw, Shucks” stuff that Nehlen and Stew depended on in public.
I also picked up that he seems very confident in his team, and calm about the minor setbacks they displayed against the team from GSU. Very near the same confidence I heard from Buster Douglas the afternoon of his match with Tyson. Hearing Douglas recount earlier bouts with Tyson and his “knowing” how to beat him, I just knew he would win. My regret, no money to bet.
My point is that for the first time since the 2012 Texas Tech game, I feel confident because he seems to, does that make sense to anyone else?
Zippy reminded me of something this past weekend that’s been circulating in my usually broken thinker. Imagine how much ground might not have been lost, how many close games won, had we not attempted to stray from the odd-stack defense after Casteel left. Oliver Luck had pointed out to Dana that he could be and run the O, but Dennis was THE defensive coordinator. At least that was what I was led to believe at the time.
Of course the real fly in that ointment was that Dennis preferred an association with Richwad over staying in Mtown, and who am I to say that he didn’t really wish to be in Dana;s employ for valid reasons? What did matter was that Dana didn;t see the folly of abandoning the defense his team already knew as had Huggins, after he tried to drop Belein’s defense and the time spent learning that cost us dearly. We can’t get those losses back or quiet bruised feelings and egos, but we can move on and hope that finally we are through the awful tragedy of RRs abandonment, Stewart’s treachery, and the turmoil of bringing in an upstart young head coach to run what was basically someone else’s staff.
I guess I just felt n the wake of the victory over GSU that we finally have a clean slate, a happy staff, and a single vision among these young athletes for the first time in years. Let’s go Mounties,,, there is no time like the present………..

Dann

For so many reasons, this is one of the best comments ever.  

smeer said:

so . . . did Jennings or Ka’Raun get any action? (during the game)

Nope.

Sid Brockman said:

My vote for this year’s GAM goes to Joseph. Durante should be FAM (Fast A$$ Man) or something.

Are we in on this? Yes or no. I think we can pass the GAM baton to Joseph, but is Durante FAM or QuAM? I’m more partial to QuAM for giggles, but he looked more F than Qu. But can a freshman be a M? He’s a kid, right? There’s something intriguing about seeing FAK every time Durante strikes.

ffejbboc said:

Joseph is more of a BAM (Bad A$$ Man) than a GAM.

This is true. What Kevin White did was GA stuff. Joseph elicits our responses by doing BA stuff. Maybe GAM is a separate identity? Maybe it left with White? I’m conflicted.  

Dave K said:

Joseph is GAM this season. How ’bout GAF (grown a.. freshman) for Durante?

You can’t be grown and a freshman! We need a policy on all these names ASAP.

overtheSEC said:

I submitted a comment to last week’s chat I don’t think made the cut but I more or less said if this secondary wants to live up to the pre-season hype it was my opinion they needed to create turnovers like the 2011 LSU secondary. Mo Claiborne (of 7NA gut punch kickoff return fame) was 6th in the country in interceptions that year, and the Honey Badger was 4th in the country in fumbles forced (and was one of only 2 DBs/safeties in the top 15). We knew creating TOs was an area of emphasis in the offseason but I was very pleased and impressed to see this addition to their repertoire in just game 1, especially against a team that only threw 4 interceptions all of 2014.

I see your reference and raise you one: One TFGD suggested that if Favian Upshaw was as good as suspended Kevin Ellison, then Georgia State is in deep trouble this season. Upshaw had a terrible day. But WVU did catch the interceptions as opposed to dropping them, and I liked Noble Nwachukwu’s hit and strip and Terrell Chestnut’s strip just after the ball carrier’s knee was down. Those are good signs. 

netbros said:

In last week’s chat, Mike mentioned that KJ Dillon is the player on the team you most want to listen to in post game interviews. So, I listened, and Mike was right. Dillon said a mouthful after the game.

He might be as much fun as Darwin Cook.

I enjoy him. 

smeer said:

was it my imagination or were there a ton more video interviews this week?

if so, is this a result of more space in the team meeting room?

Partly that and partly the fact there are 213 organizations covering the team and about half of them simply walk around the room holding cameras and not asking any questions just so they can send their videos back to one of the 213 organizations. It’s problematic. 

Mr M said:

It seems Evan Williams has lost his corner office. Did he want to get away from the shiny cat?

Mr. Williams passed away last week. He’ll be remembered for his strong character, his smooth delivery and a growing popularity that couldn’t be slowed. I have proof 86 percent of the people who met him liked him.

rickinpa said:

The cat’s tail was eerily still. Is this a bad omen, or just another Taboo Tuesday??

Battery died. I was charging it as we taped.

netbros said:

“You can figure out who I’m talking about?”

Art Briles, I think your peer at WVU just handed you your hat.

Waiting for comment from Baylor on this, but the school said Briles was checking with Chris Petersen first.

smeer said:

sharing the wealth

five different players scored TDs

five different recievers had three (4) or more catches (Wendell with 4)

so again Ka-Raun? Jennings? see the field?

thinking Barber sits out – just a hunch – why chance it when you have Al-Rasheed?

Muldrow? did he get our one penalty?

so Kwiatkowski moved to outside and still all over the field.

Barber will play. No reason to rest him for something he took care of on the field. WVU needs more than 66 snaps and White and Jennings need to practice better to play more. Kwiatkoski is more agile than you think, which makes him a better fit outside — and remember, he was recruited as a safety and played wide receiver at Bethel Park. Muldrow hadn’t practiced and didn’t play. I’ve heard he’s claiming an abdomen injury.

Sammy said:

In a strange way I think the Liberty game is a big one for the receivers, as I don’t think it’d be good for Durante and Gibson to play 100% of the time like Alford and GAM did. If Mathis, Davis, Jennings or White can go make a play or two it might help build confidence and trust to get them in the rotation. I thought Mathis played well even though he didn’t have a catch – seemed to block well and he got open a few times and Howard just missed him.

I thought it was interesting that when WVU used two receivers near the goal line it was Shorts and Durante. Not surprised about Shorts but surprised Durante stayed on the field rather than Gibson, who seems a little bigger and thus better at jump balls — and he’s not a freshman.

Also with both Shorts and Thompson inside I guess that means we won’t see much KJ Myers this year. He seems to be a positive force in the locker room now and I’m not clamoring for him to be on the field, but I thought as a senior he might get some looks as a rotational player.

Agreed on all of that. I think Durante was in to get experience and because his twitch at the line is good for creating space, which quarterbacks rather like in tight spaces. Gibson has similar ability. Given the chance to pick one or the other, Lonnie Galloway used Devonte Mathis over Gary Jennings in the red zone — and Mathis is a big target at 6-1, 215. Galloway picked Shorts because he’s their best all-around receiver.

netbros said:

Holgorsen’s response to Mike’s question at the tail end of the presser is now an ESPN headline: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/13613992/west-virginia-coach-dana-holgorsen-says-fbs-schools-play-fcs-programs

I feel like I do this to Dana a lot. 

tls62pa said:

I said I was pleasantly surprised to see Marvin Gross show up on ST. Seems like he isn’t capable of much else. For a guy who saw a lot of PT as a true frosh on a bad defense, I think he’s been overlooked when people question the depth chart because I think people thought there was potential. Definitely lacks size, but he obviously isn’t doing much to make up for that per DH

Well, to be fair, he’s 6-2 and 215 pounds. If you believe former defensive coordinator Keith Patterson, he’s 30 pounds heavier than he was two years ago — no matter the number, Gross was too small to play, which makes him fortunate to have redshirted last season. He put on 10 pounds of mostly muscle in the offseason, and he clearly has gifts. But he’s got a real problem, too. He’s shrinking.

I love you, Doug! said:

Hasn’t Joseph knocked other teammates out of games?

I feel like you of all people should remember this.

JP Young said:

Howard’s trouble with touch passes should have all WVU fans worried. If we are going to substitute accuracy for mobility, why not do it with Crest? We have him for 4 years

SheikYbuti said:

JP Young says:
September 9, 2015 at 5:58 pm

Howard’s trouble with touch passes should have all WVU fans worried. If we are going to substitute accuracy for mobility, why not do it with Crest? We have him for 4 years

********************

This. It’s a reasonable question, and the most reasonable answer is “because the coaching staff has seen both QBs in practice and believes that Howard offers a better chance at winning.” The media, however, has NOT seen both QBs in practice (and particularly Crest, inasmuch as we should presume that Howard is playing like he practices), so there’s no objective check on the staff’s analysis.

See what I did there? Everything is tied together.

OK, I’m with you on some of this, and I’ll repeat what I’ve said before. Put them side by side and have them go through drills and then pick one over the other. You’d take Crest first because you’d want your quarterback and his throws and movement to look like that. But you wouldn’t want to lose right now. That’s why he’s not the starter. Howard’s handle on the offense and the respect of his teammates he possesses means he’s more likely to win right now than Crest. That’s all based on what I’ve heard from people who are at the practices we’re not allowed to attend. And Howard, who, to be fair, isn’t a vastly inferior athlete, has practiced well, as evidenced by some of the statistics people have shared with me. 

Drew said:

I think Howard throws a better deep ball and the one thing Dana has repeatedly mentioned is Howard doesn’t turn it over. Crest seems to have had problems with turnovers in practice. Turnovers absolutely killed us last year. TCU and KSU could have been wins if not for so many turnovers.

I do think Crest provides a considerable bump in mobility. Howard’s better than most that Dana has had, but Crest is definitely faster and obviously bigger. If the running game doesn’t garner the attention from defenses that Dana wants and we aren’t able to be successful running even with a numbers advantage, maybe eventually, the more mobile option (Crest) would be better.

Exactly. The part about the deep ball is something people have said before, and, clearly, that’s a part of the plan this season. But turnovers go a long way with influencing this staff. Howard just doesn’t turn it over, and Holgorsen is partial to that.

AnxiousEER97 said:

Help me out here. We’re talking about the benefits of the diamond formation. You can throw from it. You can run from it. It forces defenses to reveal their tendencies. Assuming all of this is true (and I’m not disputing it), how is the diamond formation any different than an old fashioned I-formation? You can have 2 and 3 WRS in it. You can have 1, 2 or 3 blocking backs. For years, WVU had solid receivers make great catches from the I formation. Think Saunders and Foreman. So, how is the diamond formation any better than the I-formation?

See, I’m 40 – and I’m clearly getting old with these dated references to ancient players and formations.

There are similarities, like there are in so many other formations and philosophies, and one thing WVU discovered when Ron Crook arrived with his Stanford power plays was that WVU could do a lot of the Stanford stuff in the diamond because it was so similar. The major difference is that this is 2015 and we’re dealing with spread offenses. The quarterback and the backs are in the shotgun. The depth helps the running back and the quarterback see the defense sooner and also helps the play happen faster. The depth of the backs, the possibility they can go anywhere without a tight end on the line providing a hint and the width of the receivers all adds space for the offense to exploit. In an I formation, the quarterback is under center and the backs are behind him. The old Maryland I had three backs, but most of the time you’re going to see two and either two receivers and a tight end or three receivers. Either way, the defense is more condensed.

smeer said:

because ALL your personell are in the box except for two wide outs – the wideouts are really wide which forces the D to show (via it’s safeties)

no receiver in the slot so no DB there who can either blitz, cover man or play zone and the safeties have to show if they are covering or pressing for run support

just like motion helps uncover man or zone, the daimond forces Ds to show their hand.

even a two TE set with the I could force the D to show, but the diamond is more versatile – that 4th player in the backfield could be an RB – like Wendell, FB or TE

I’m not doing a good job of explaining – anybody else? Mike?

You’ve got it. Manipulating the defense is a big part of offense nowadays.

Smamy said:

Fascinating. And I assume one reason WVU is paranoid is because they are doing the exact same things about their opponents. I also remember last year when Dana and others were being cagey about the defense shifting back to the 3-3-5, and then in the lead up to the Alabama game Nick Saban said “we understand that West Virginia has gone back to the 3-3 stack defense.” It’s war out there.

Gosh, remember that? Like, everyone knew it was  a 3-3-5 and Holgorsen went weeks without acknowledging it. Know how Alabama got that? People were watching WVU’s offseason player interviews and found one with a player who let it slip.

Mack said:

I think the way Holgorsen handles the media with respect to practice (at least as far as what I understand of it) is proper. There’s no need for the media to be watching the practices.

As far as the SB Nation quote, I find it very hard to believe the coaching staff cared that much about it. You only have a finite amount of time to prepare for an opponent. If they want to speculate on what WVU is going to do without actually seeing it, then they’re likely to waste time on it.

I’ll never agree with the part about the need for media to watch practice. We cover teams, not games. I also think both teams cared about the quote, though certainly it’s relative. Georgia Southern spotted something and used that to prepare for that something. WVU does not want its secrets getting out, and WVU was protecting that secret. Whether it’s true or not, whether it mattered or not, the fact Georgia Southern’s defensive coordinator stated for a reporter to write that a photograph taken by the media at a WVU practice told him WVU would run read option bothers WVU. How that looks and not what happened within the game is what counts.

BobbyHeenan said:

Not mentioned in the article:

They also had access to single overhead photo showing a gold and blue streak covering about a 40 yard span on the hash. They assumed that their covert operative in the airplane above had left the camera shutter speed on for too long or it possibly represented a light artifact from a reflection off the scoreboard.

However, insiders at WVU that reviewed the photo have stated that it’s simply the way photos look when Durante or Gibson get a clean release off the line for a go pattern.

Copy editors…

I love you, Doug! said:

We’re all Kremlinologists now.

действительно.

philip said:

ilyd nails it. what strikes incredulity at the value of a single photo for a tip-off to a strategy is the thing that separates casual sports fans from coaches making six figures. fbs football is an arms race and the generals’ operatives are sifting through any online trashcan for bits of intel that might give their teams an edge.

also, thanks for linking that sbnation piece. a really nice read from the other side.

Bang. It happens. Everywhere. I promise. Again, I don’t know what practical damage was done — and 44-0 might actually answer that question — but the fact the Mountaineers look like they were sloppy and susceptible is the issue they have. The probably don’t believe it was a big deal, but it’s out there and don’t you think everyone else will be looking for other openings? That’s what they want to avoid. 

Down South said:

Couldn’t disagree with you more, Mack. At a time when interest in the sport, especially among the younger crowd, is dwindling, the Universities ought to be mandating more media time, not less. This constant desire to suppress media coverage of the program is, in the long run, counterproductive to the sports entertainment industry. If people can’t find out anything about the program, why should they care about going to the game on Saturday? I’m sure Dana, like most other coaches, takes the Keynesian view that, in the long run, we are all dead (or at least fired). Which is why higher-ups within the universities or conferences ought to impose more open time for the media. For all the cloak and dagger, football isn’t that complicated a game. If my big guys are better than your big guys and my guys don’t turn the ball over, my team is probably going to beat your team. Really, if that Georgia State coach needed to look through all those pictures on the internet to realize that we were going to do some read option, he really isn’t very smart.

I’m with you on the final three sentences. You all know where I stand on the first part, and you all know what I just went through with my job. I get really, really hot when people blabber about how they don’t get anything out of the newspaper now … because they’re not incorrect. But they’re not incorrect because of something that’s entirely out of my control. Do you want to read about what’s happening in camp or do you want to read about the diet the left guard was on in the summer?

smeer said:

in the escalated world of the power five, I understand keeping practice under wraps

but i find it semi-incredulous that THAT pic was a clue to game plan by – Howard ran zone-read versus Iowa State last year. from highschool to juco, plenty of film on him running – whether zone-read, designed runs or scrambles. how many articles on how WVU was looking or a mobile QB to change the position?

that article was well done, but filled with excuses (WVUprepped for us for three weeks) – Fritz complimented but with little digs

Let’s not pretend that Jack Curtis is incapable of making himself and his staff look especially shrewd by manufacturing that scene. And, oh, hey, guess who else isn’t reading newspapers — Georgia Southern.

Mack said:

There is zero chance that media members attending practices increases the interest in the sport. They talk to the coaches and players roughly every week … then they beat the drum of who’s good and who isn’t.

Without attending practices or seeing any video of the team, I watched the game Saturday knowing before the first snap that Gibson and Durante were the big time players on the offense.

Zero? This is nonsense. Nonsense. I don’t even know how to briefly refute it, but I saw Durante fly around the field and catch punts and passes and return kickoffs on his first day and then I saw him doing the same later in camp, this time with players and coaches watching on like they shouldn’t take their eyes off of him. Then I wrote this. Most-read story from the preseason. Go through all the blog comments from the preseason. There are more that mention Durante than Karl Joseph. You can do the same with different metrics from other media. There was no single player people were more excited about than Durante. That doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Are there people who just write what the coaches say? Sure, and that waters down what we do, but we — hell — they do that because that’s all they’re able to do.

Mack said:

John Pennington’s catch is the single most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen in person at Mountaineer Field. The fact that WVU was 2-0 against Larry Fitzgerald kind of goes down in the books with being undefeated against Flutie and to a far lesser extent beating the Pennington/Moss Marshall team. They’re all just kind of things that are nice to have.

I’m nothing if not fair: This is not nonsense. Rod Rutherford was a bad man, too. 

Down South said:

I still think Fitzgerald is the best football player I’ve ever seen play at Mountaineer Field. Be interested to hear who others would give that honor. Been to a lot fewer basketball games, but Allen Iverson is still the guy that stands out in that sport.

At Mountaineer Field? Yeah, he was terrific. He’d be up there. I remember looking at David Boston and thinking he’d be a star in the NFL. I thought Mathieu was amazing. Mike Vick was unfair. Bryant McKinnie (and his whole 2000 team). This is a fun discussion. Have at it.

I love you, Doug! said:

Yay! Let’s bring back UConn and Rutgers next!

Enjoy the weekend!