Friday Feedback
January 9, 2015 by Mike Casazza
Welcome to the Friday Feedback, happy to kick it with you after a really weird week. Wasn’t sure I’d make it today after catching something during my 20-hour sojourn from Lubbock all the way to Dallas Tuesday. I had this weird dream, induced or inspired by my health or medication or a lack of sleep or a potent combination, that I wrote about pinatas with razor blades in them and how WVU had three defensive line coaches and … yeah, I had to be here today.
Because tomorrow is going to be a fun one at the Coliseum. Remember the last time Iowa State was inside the Coliseum? It was a demolition and the Mountaineers destroyed a pretty good Cyclones team. The game was over way before it was over, but neither team was finished and there was ample animosity to suggest something might happen.
And then something happened.
There’s nothing good about this … but the best part is you hear the broadcast team talking about Ron Artest and remembering Malice in the Palace as part of an allusion to a possible bad scene at the Coliseum. Eron Harris was ejected for a flagrant 2 foul. Dustin Hogue was given a flagrant 1. There were some accusations and denials after the game, but it was clear those two teams had had enough of one another.
Then WVU went to Iowa State and was never really a threat to win the game. Harris had a bad night and he was a target from the start.
Well, here come the 17th-ranked Cyclones, quietly scuffling with 123 points in the past two games. The 14th-ranked Mountaineers come strutting into the game with their problem-causing defense and their second seven-game winning streak. It’s an 8 p.m. start. All of that makes this one to watch, but we have the sidebar, too.
No one has forgotten what happened here last season, even if the memories vary.
I’m going to have to tune them out this time,” Hogue said. “They’re going to have a field day with me. I already know that.”
The Mountaineers crushed Iowa State that night and would lead by 32 points on the way to a 102-77 win. With 4:30 left to play, a Cyclones miss floated over to an area where Hogue and WVU’s Kevin Noreen were standing. Exactly what happened next is the source of great debate, but what’s clear is Hogue’s right foot struck Noreen in the chest.
Iowa State coach Fred Hoiberg remembers that Hogue “kind of threw his foot out on the rebound.” The Mountaineers were convinced that night Hogue took out his team’s frustrations on Noreen.
The outcome was an overshadowed flagrant foul against Hogue.
“I’ve always been the wild guy, but I was trying to get the rebound,” Hogue said. “I realize my foot was going out and it looks bad on camera, but that was never my intent.”
The crowd of 8,177 was livid, but only briefly. A loose ball bounced to Iowa State’s Monte Morris. He drove to the left side of the basket tried a layup but met WVU’s Eron Harris along the way. Harris swung his right arm wildly and struck Morris hard in the head. Harris was given a flagrant 2 foul and ejected.
He said after the game he was only trying to block the shot. Hoiberg remembered Harris “took one out on Monte.” Morris said WVU’s Juwan Staten told him Harris’ foul was “payback.” Staten denied ever saying that and pointed out the Mountaineers were stomping the Cyclones at that time.
“Those things happen in the game of basketball,” said Hoiberg, a star at Iowa State and later in the NBA. “I don’t know if it was any one thing because it was our two teams, but I do think when you play against West Virginia, it’s going to be a battle.”
Onto the Feedback. As always, comments appear as posted. In other words, prepare properly.
UnLucky said:
Good thing we didn’t cancel the season after we trailed Monmouth at halftime.
Ya think? Monmouth is very average, by the way.
Mountiefan3 said:
If I was an opposing team, I would hate us. We seem to get under everyone’s skin. Reminds me a lot about those Cincinnati teams. They have this us against the world attitude which I love. Moving forward this was a big win without Juwan. Love the attitude and desire they show.
I can’t see that far back in my rear view mirror, but I know the 2010 Final Four team drove opponents insane. I mean, those guys tried to evoke responses from the other team and then went to another level when it happened. But they did it with theatrics. They never fouled anyone but got fouled every time they were touched. They talked a little junk. They played stubborn defense that made the game ugly. They just acted a way that brought the worst out of people — and I mean that as a compliment. This team has a little of that, but it just harasses you with its defense, and that really bothers the other team, the other coach and the other team’s fans. WVU gets right up on the line separating legal and illegal and stays there the whole game.
Eric said:
Mike, what was that about Holton and Johnson?
Popped up out of nowhere, though watching the game I didn’t think WVU’s players cared for how Trent Johnson was working the officials. In the handshake line after WVU v. TCU, Johnson jumped on Holton (and though I didn’t see it, I have to presume Holton did or said something to trigger that). Johnson kept saying, “You don’t talk to me” and Holton was a little heated until Huggins and Harrison intervened. Huggins and Johnson talked it over after Johnson’s press conference. Heat of the moment, I’d assume, but it was an odd scene … and one that fits with the above.
ffedbboc said:
Mike, so was the WiFi better at the Fort Worth high school gym than it is at the Colesium?
Yeah, but most arenas have better WiFi than the Coliseum. And TCU’s gym was fine. Nothing wrong with it. I liked it a lot, more than the old on-campus place.
oklahoma mountaineer said:
The team’s hustle and toughness is vintage Huggins UC teams……but is the shooting woes also in line with Huggs’ teams as well?? Can’t remember that far back for a team I didn’t follow, but I’ve got to think shooting is a problem with the volume of rebounding that they have been famous for….can someone confirm/deny the history of shooting woes??
This is not going to eliminate your point … but WVU’s shooting percentages are savaged by the quantity of missed layups and one-footers. It’s unbelievable. There are some seamhead statistics out there you may or may not care about that show WVU’s becoming a better shooting team, though. The effective shooting and true shooting percentages are optimistic. (Scan through them, if you want. I won’t bore you with those numbers … yet! … but let Wellington Smith explain why they might matter.)
jtmountaineer said:
The % is deceptive, given how many more shots we take than our opponents. To me, the most consistent outside shooter has been Jaysean Page. It’s going to be key for him to stay on the floor.
Anybody else hear the dig by the color commentator last night at Harris and Henderson? Miles and Carter certainly have made it easy to get over those two departures.
Where’s our old friend who didn’t think Huggs could recruit or coach guards?
Bingo. WVU overwhelms you with possessions and shots. They can afford to make a lower percentage of shots because they take so many shots and because they don’t let the other team take nearly as many since they steal a dozen possessions a game. It’s warped logic, to an extent, but it’s true. To that, add the number of layups they’ll take (and, presumably, one day make fairly consistently) and how contested many of the opponent’s shots are. You can play this way and win some games with last year’s shooting numbers.
Karl said:
It’s a credit to Oliver Luck’s leadership that I’m somehow feeling underwhelmed by this hire. Lyons has great credentials, to a point that it may have been harder to attract someone like him four years ago. It’s early, obviously, but I’m not hearing anything about Lyons yet that suggests he has any grand vision for the direction of the program or the Big 12. Maybe that’s just what’s called for in this particular era of WVU athletics.
Luck made a lot of transformational changes. All we may need now is a competent caretaker to continue on our current path and make some adjustments here and there. The task of possibly hiring a football coach — a decision that often defines an AD’s success or failure — pales in comparison to the challenges Luck had to face, like navigating realignment and extricating some of the parasites that held the program back. Lyons is taking over a job that’s much better than the one his predecessor inherited because of it.
The “grand vision” is interesting, because Luck came in with a stack of issues on his desk. I asked Lyons about some of these things and never really got a definitive answer, but I don’t think a phone call with me hours after signing his contract was the time or the place to do it. He’s got a press conference tomorrow, so maybe then? And maybe he’s not yet prepared to spell it all out — remember, he thought he’d be playing for the national title Monday. Certainly Luck was in charge during a volatile period defined by changes he navigated and instituted, and his legacy ought to be how well-positioned his school is on the other end, but let’s not pretend all is calm, either. The NCAA reform is going to really juggle things and it’s going to ask questions of individual conferences and schools. An AD is going to have everything to do with how a school handles these major changes. There are far-reaching effects to these changes and the AD has to have a keen ability to see and to foresee everything. Let’s look at one area: Big 12 schools will cover the full cost of attendance, multi-year scholarships and continuing education. Lyons told me Alabama was providing dental, medical and rehabilitation costs for athletes affected in collegiate competition and that he expects WVU to do the same soon. That’s not something he’ll follow the Big 12’s lead on. He’ll be at the helm and figuring out how to handle a very vast topic. Lots of student-athletes, lots of injuries, lots of money and you need a way to track all of it during and after one’s college career.
Mack said:
Once Lyons settles in and gets apprised of all the current issues in the athletic department, his first question is likely to be, “How can everyone hate an ASSISTANT football coach so much?”
I think that’s one of the surest signs WVU has joined the Big Time. Many major programs have at least one assistant the fans have learned to loathe through the years.
SkeikYbuti said:
It makes no outward sense to replace a departing offensive coach with a defensive coach. My guess is that Dana expects DeForest to leave soon, and he has hired Tall preemptively as the best option who might not have been available later. I am strictly spitballing here, guessing that Dana is extremely reluctant to fire his friend DeForest; the announced reduction in salary looks better than a firing and is intended in part to appease the critics, but neither party expects DeForest to ever actually perform under that contract. As soon as he can get a comparable offer elsewhere, DeForest is gone (ostensibly of his own accord). Holgorsen can then take his time completing his staff by hiring a relatively low-level offensive coach. It’s ultimately a win-win, making the best of a less-than-favorable situation.
Valid observations, but I don’t think DeForest is going anywhere. I can only tell you what I know, and I know that Tony Gibson is a defensive backs coach by trade who has long worked with safeties, and given the chance and the choice to take that over, he instead stayed at linebacker, went and got Bruce Tall after going down that road last season before Bradley was hired and essentially signed off on another year for DeForest. I can tell you this, too. DeForest can coach safeties and kickers and punters and coverage teams. He has the full faith of the staff there. Could a one-year deal and a reduced salary be, I don’t know, a non-firing firing in that Dana hopes he sulks away to another job? Sure. But that doesn’t seem to be the next move.
tls62pa said:
This puzzle has me all confused. I mean, I get the scenario, but HCDH seems to be taking on a lot of responsibilities when I was hoping he’d continue to manage the program in its entirety. Don’t think it’s wise for him to get spread too thin.
This presumes things don’t change, and I can’t see that being the outcome. I do think Dana has entrusted the defense to Gibby, but also to DeForest and Mitchell, who he knows very well and trusts very much ,and Tall, who Gibby wanted. I do think six defensive assistants is at minimum one too many. One of those DL coaches is moving, either to the offensive side or to another school … that of his own doing. WVU isn’t firing and paying someone. If a coach leaves or is moved to offense, the offensive side is going to get someone, I think, to handle inside receivers/TEs. Just feels like Dana wants to get back to the quarterbacks.
Eric said:
I am hopeful that Bradley will stay on in some capacity. He seems to be a cohesive presence that can continue to help Gibby grow as D Coordinator as well as assist Dana in running the program as the Associate Head Coach. Losing Bradley would be a big loss to me.
Eh, let’s be careful here. I don’t know how to handle this or to address this, because goodness knows Bradley’s resume is what it is, but having been around this for almost a year, I can’t tell you that Bradley is the patriarch of the program. He coached nose guard this season and did a nice job with Kyle Rose, but let’s not get carried away with his overall impact on a 7-6 team that used a defense he wasn’t familiar with and had, I think we can agree, game day issues all season.
ccteam said:
Does this signal a departure for Bradley?
Certainly possible. Bruce Tall is here to coach the defensive line. Cogdell and Bradley are moving somewhere. If they want to coach another position, they can. If, to continue what I posed above, one doesn’t want to coach inside receivers/TEs, he’s free to look for another job. That’s the business.
Sammy said:
From Tall’s bio:
“Tall has worked as Michigan’s Defensive Line Coach the last three years. With over 25 years of collegiate coaching experience, Tall adds another dose of veteran experience to the 49ers staff. Offensive Coordinator Jeff Mullen has 20 years of collegiate coaching experience.”
http://www.charlotte49ers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205141315
You laugh, but in each of the past two offseasons — before Charlotte’s inaugural season and then after its first season — I heard a lot of coaches reached out to Mullen to talk offense. I bet he moves up again soon. That school’s doing good things in football and starting to get noticed for it, and you can grant the guy a chance to mature and learn how to do the job better than he did the first time.
Down South said:
Any chance that DeForest starts coaching a position on offense? He would seem the most likely to switch from offense to defense on the current staff. And still maintain his presence on special teams. I can’t imagine he’s never coached the third side of the ball.
I suppose. He coached RBs at Rice and did all right with his star pupil. Maybe he goes to RBs and JaJuan goes to QBs and Bradley goes to safeties? But that’s a lot of motion.
Oklahoma Mountaineer said:
Mike, I’ve got a question that maybe you would be able to answer — how much of a raise will Tall get in coming back to WVU? I can’t believe that he was getting anything close to the $200K he will be making as a line coach back here.
Curious to see what the money at the FCS is relative to the FBS — there is a great disparity between the guys on Doc’s staff at Marshall and those at WVU….and I’d think the drop is a pretty good one to get to those at Charlotte.
…$250K, though you cleared that up in a subsequent comment. I don’t know what he was making at Charlotte but I’d bet the head coach wasn’t making what Tall will make at WVU. I’d bet he more-than-doubled his salary.
Berznope said:
That particular photo of the Mountaineer is unfortunate. It appears as if he is pulling on a giant hookah.
…yikes. You’re going to make the F Double for the name alone, though.
ffejbboc said:
From my old PHS yearbook, I offer yet more proof that if WVU isn’t already a basketball school, it surely will be one shortly.
…he’s gigantic.
Mr M said:
Mike — what is the status of that “advisory council” that was to offer suggestions toward making the WVU game experience better? One of our bloggers made the cut (although I forget who). After the first meeting, I don’t recall hearing of any activity.
I know they met two other times, but I haven’t followed up. Good question, though. I’ll check in Saturday at the game.
The 25314 said:
That’s a nice thought, but TCU is 2-35 in the Big 12, and Texas Tech is 22-81 over the last 7 years, so that seems like built in wins to me.
True, and I don’t see either of them getting out of the 9-10 spots in the standings, but WVU had issues with both of them last year and had no such trouble this time around. I didn’t articulate that point well enough, though.
hershy12 said:
Mike,
What are the chances we can get them to play “Kung Fu Fighting” when Hogue is introduced?
High. I know those people read the blog. If they’ve made it this far … who knows? I’d appeal to the pep band, though. There’s a rogue element there you could exploit. The house audio would have an official element to it WVU might want to avoid.
Foul Shot said:
Relax, these guys are pretty good. Maybe not winning the B-12, but making the tourney and hopefully winning at least two.
This feels like the season someone sneaks in the back door, gets got late and steals the league title. I don’t see a runaway winner.
Mack said:
“Maybe not winning the B-12, but making the tourney and hopefully winning at least two.”
AT LEAST two? You realize that means WVU is one of the top 16 teams in the country, right? If that’s the case, then why are you so quick to write off winning the Big 12?
Kansas, probably.
Drew said:
Yeah I’m with 25314 on this one. TCU has done this before. They have a good record going into conference play and then get drubbed.
I think WVU’s record is a bit of fool’s gold also. I’m still leaning towards what I said after the LSU game. I see this team as more of a bubble team at the end of the season than as the 14th ranked team or a 3-4-5 seed. I’m expecting about a .500 record from this point forward. That’s 8-8 in the remaining 16 games. That would make for a 22-9 record.
OK … but that’s 22-9/ 10-8, which is a pretty good season. And to get eight more wins, you’re going to have to beat a couple of ranked/reputable teams. We’ll know more after this weekend, I guess, but I’m most interested to see if WVU can develop a home court advantage. Right now, I’d argue there is none, or isn’t a very big one.
tls62pa said:
Idk, Mike, but what I see with my two eyes is sloppy play, especially on the offensive end. Just feel like we’ll be exposed now that we’re getting to good, experienced teams.
But remember, WVU makes the game sloppy and is sometimes as victimized as it is rewarded by its own speed and energy, particularly early in the game when the opponent has enough in the tank to counter. I think they’re slowing down and playing better half-court offense, but, sure, there are lulls. This isn’t a finished product or a team that’s arrived, but it’s a good team that has plenty of room before the ceiling. I think it’s harder to expose a press if pressing is what a team does. Offenses can exposes zones, even if that’s what a team does, but it’s a different pace and thus a different story.
Parks said:
tls62pa—I would offer this spin on it.
Sure the offense looks sloppy, but only at times. Other times, we swing the ball and pass it across better than previous teams. Here’s the thing though…it happens every game. It’s like clock-work. During the first half, we’ll struggle some with our half-court offense, our defense will lose containment on the press and the other team either gets fouled or makes an easy shot. Again, clock-work. Then somewhere around the final 3 minutes of the first half (usually the final media timeout of the half) until the end of the game, they become relentless. The press gets turned up all the way, the offense finally starts clicking and, as of late, we start to make a lot of shots.
Our 2nd half statistics are pretty much awesome. If we could play an entire game like that, we’d be close to UK’s level this season. That’s not what this team does, though. It’s almost like they are going to let opponents stay close in the first half. They want them to feel just close enough so that when they do finally land those punches, the other team completely deflates and gives up.
So damn fun to watch.
…that’s a better, less unbiased way to say it.
jtmountaineer said:
Are these Big 12 teams coming up really much more experienced than we are? Each has a returning starter or three, but five of our players did play last year, one of them as well as anyone else in the league. A lot of other newcomers on these good teams as well.
To pick up the thread on the previous post, people might be forgetting–I myself forgot–that we went 9-9 in pre-tourney league play last year. That was last year. We’re decidedly better, and aside from Texas and Oklahoma, other teams either look about the same or slightly less daunting (Kansas, ISU, KSU, OSU).
I don’t have a read on the Big 12 yet, except that I think Oklahoma is damn good and sorting out 3-8 is going to be a rock fight. Something you do have to consider: The Wall. WVU’s playing two freshmen a lot of minutes, plus two first-year junior college players (and Jon Holton, who … let’s keep an eye on him).
Rugger said:
I enjoy watching the opposition transition from cocky in the first half to humble by the end of the game.
Por ejemplo…..Boatright was pretty cocky during most of the game but the photo for the all tourney team showed slumped shoulders framing a summer camp consolation trophy. Not sure he’s recovered yet.
And that was just the beginning.
hershy112 said:
Rugger,
I agree. I think it was Wofford that saw how many times NC State turned it over against us, and said no way that they would turn it over that many times against us. Well, 22 turnovers and a 30+ pt loss later, I would imagine they were whistling a different tune.
On another note, I liked Eron Harris in the sense that we always had a guy that could hit a 3 when we needed it, but that being said, I would much rather have a team like we have this year. You don’t see anyone walking around or half assing anything. This team plays hard and I love it.
And Staten let the Terriers know about it after the game, too. Also, let’s not bury Harris and Henderson here. They weren’t asked to play this way, though probably for a reason, and WVU had a couple other icebergs out there the past few years.
Drew said:
I like Harris, too. That is, until he started pouting and refusing to try on defense. When Harris and Henderson were Freshmen I thought they were the future of the program and was excited about that.
Harris has the biggest thing this team is missing on the offensive end. With the way he played defense, he would’ve been relegated to situational playing time, though. It would be nice to have that guy who can make big shots with his range, but it wasn’t worth it.
I like this team. They are fun to watch. You couldn’t always say that about the grind it out style of the Final Four team, though they had a habit of keeping things exciting at the end. I still think there is an offensive weakness that is going to be pushed to the surface when facing better offensive teams who can break the press consistently. The Big 12 is also a grind. This team is pretty deep, but they rely on effort and energy so much those tanks are bound to run dry a few times as they get into the thick of conference play.
Harris hated losing. That’s not a defense of him. It’s a fact. And he couldn’t handle it. I thought he responded poorly when teams picked on him. You don’t see that now. Who are you picking on out there now? How are you isolating that? It can happen but it’s not as easy. As for the Harris Factor this team is missing, I sort of see it in Paige. I think moving him to the bench was a clever move. Browne and Staten have a great feel for one another and that helps the team get started right. Browne’s also a better defender than Paige, and Browne can guard the other team’s PG if needed to keep Staten safe and spry for a while and Staten can score more with Browne’s focus elsewhere. Paige gives you a perimeter/scoring boost off the bench and Carter’s a good enough defender to complement Paige when they’re together. It’s worked nicely so far.
jtmountaineer said:
Interesting development about Henderson since Harris seemed to be the better shooter.
buh-dum-pum.
Enjoy the weekend!