Welcome to the Friday Feedback, which has been guarding screens since 2007. It seems what I was going to use for the intro today is actually what everyone wants to discuss in greater depth. Bob Huggins has had, once again, some interesting stuff to say about his team and two things seems to be getting the most run:

“We’ve got two guys playing point guard who have never played point guard in their lives. Some days they’re OK. Other days they’re not OK.”

… and …

“We’re probably the most non-athletic team in the league.”

We’re going to get into greater detail and I risk circling back to the same series of explanations and defenses, so I’ll just lay out a few things here.

– If you ask, “Well, who recruited those non-athletic guys?” I think we all know the answer, and that includes Huggins. He knows where the buck stops. He says it without saying it. I think we can agree on one thing: Huggins is never cryptic.

– He’s saying the same things to his players, so it’s not double-talk.

– Don’t make too much of the “never played point guard” stuff. It’s like having a high school running back play slot receiver in college. The way Huggins uses his guards, the difference between a PG and a SG is minimal. And in college, Hinds and Browne would not be SGs. Huggins likes guards who can get at the rim and get easy baskets and a high school SG like Hinds can do that as a college PG.

This is not an apologist movement. There are problems we’ve seen for a while — ” … we went to St. John’s and it was the most uninspired I’ve ever seen a team play in my life,” Huggins said. “It’s been all downhill from there.” — and we can talk about all of them, but WVU still isn’t in a completely desolate position.

Wednesday was a bad night. Maybe just a bad half. If you continue to pursue the sunny disposition, Notre Dame isn’t a good matchup for WVU, especially at home. I can’t stand the “If the season ended today …” line because the season does not end today. If the season ended Jan. 21, WVU would have had a double-bye in the Big East Tournament and been a 5-seed in the NCAA Tournament.

Plus, things can change very fast with a win tonight. The game is sold out. It’s a 9 p.m. start, when the Coliseum is always frisky, and the people seem to genuinely dislike sleepless Buzz Williams. Could be a good one, except — and this is when the rain comes on the parade — Marquette is a bad, bad matchup for the Mountaineers.

The Golden Eagles have a bunch of different parts and lineups and Williams makes the most of them all. They move the ball well and play really well off the bounce, two issues for WVU and its overaggressive, underperforming defense. Worse yet Marquette plays harder than anyone in the league and WVU looked gassed Wednesday night. Hey, who wants to have some fun?

Onto the Feedback. As always, comments appear as posted. In other words, act like you belong.

jtmountaineer said:

It says a lot about where we are in the season that my biggest wish, slightly above making the tournament, is for KJ to get 20 and 10 the rest of the way and secure BEPotY. I’d like him not to be a victim of the team’s downturn.

Yeah, that would be sad because I have no reservations saying he’s been the player of the year, but I know it’s tied to a team’s success, too. How closely? I don’t know. I’d say the runner-up is Marquette’s Darius Johnson-Odom, who is second in scoring and one of the best 3-point shooters in the league. He also plays for the second-place team that has won four straight and 11 of 12. See where I’m going?

Rugger said:

This will be unpopular but I have to post it.

I see no honor in Huggs belittling the kids he recruited and coaches.

I run a small business and if the folks I hire and train do not produce, it’s on me to figure it out. Blaming them because they are unqualified for a position I hired them for will not dig us out of this hole.

If I were a potential recruit looking at the faces of Aaron Brown and Keaton Miles riding pine as Darryl Trucks everything up, I would run away from this program like my hair was on fire.

We miss Dalton more than we know and why did he leave?

We like unpopular. And those are all fair points, but you really have to see Huggins with some of the same players when they’re away from games. It’s not even close to the same. I’m also assuming you’re saying Huggins scared Pepper off, or that Pepper ran from it. Either way, my hunch is Huggins probably doesn’t want someone who wants no part of Huggins. I also tend to disagree with the blanket statement that WVU misses Pepper. How on Earth does anyone know for sure what he could have done? Are you so certain he could have stepped out the small space he was so uncomfortable in the previous two years to become a bigger presence? I’m not.

The 25314 said:

Apparently the 2-3 zone is unsolvable rubic. A Cretan labyrinth. A Penrose staircase. A riddle without an answer. A map without a key. A problem without a solution.

This problem — the puzzling struggles, not the zone — blows my mind. For one, WVU has seen the 2-3 and closely related variations every game since St. John’s. A team either used it exclusively (St. John’s, Syracuse) or featured it (Providence, Notre Dame) or just did it because it could have some success against (Pitt). You’d think WVU would get better at it, especially against teams that don’t feature it. But success has been irregular and inconsistent. And here’s the weird part: I promise you, WVU knows how to attack a 2-3 zone. I’ve overheard huddles. I’ve listened to players and coaches talk about how to hit it. It’s really not indecipherable. And yet, here they are.

Bobby Heenan said:

Just to pile on and make matters worse….

I’m not sure we’re any better at solving that 2-3 next year unless somebody gets the confidence and ability to hit some outside shots. KJ can hit the foul line high post jumper and short corner jumper – he’s gone. Truck will take and sometimes make the open three – he’s gone.

Jabarie is going to have to shoot more confidently from the outside next year. I like his stroke, so I see potential there, but Staten won’t be helping from the outside (think Rajon Rondo-ish). Aaron Brown looks eerily similar to Dalton Pepper nowadays, with potential to be a rangy shooter at the 2 or 3, but with absolutely no confidence out there.

I think we’re better on defense next year, with the young guys learning more and Deniz continuing to get better on that end of the floor. I think Staten can defend, and Murray as well. I’m also worried that we’re going to see 2-3 and sagging man to man until we prove we can hit some jumpers.

Are we sure this is the time and the place to look ahead? If you must, yes, you’ll miss that mid-range KJ jumper, but you’re going to be much bigger next season and big teams that score close and easy baskets trump any defense. It’s just a batter of getting the ball to Deniz and Murray and Macon and Noreen (!) and Forstyhe — and I feel bad for him … feel like he was peaking when he got hurt. Who knows what might have been? WVU will have a wealth of guards next season, though. And Terry Henderson is supposed to be a crazy scorer. You know who maybe could have helped this season? Todd Mayo. This tattooed Todd Mayo.

50yrfan said:

I agreed about Hugs outing his team in public. Somewhat surprised but hadn’t follow his career until he came to WV. I dont see how outing his team in public accomplishs anything but hurt’s long term.

Probably a good place to say we in the media have a part of this. He says other stuff about his team. We use the best quotes. In my case, because I can only speak for myself, I think Huggins kind of reaching the end of the rope with this team is a story. The quotes are part and parcel. It’s not THAT he said these things. It’s WHY he said these things and at 17-11/ 7-8, it’s worthy.

jtmountaineer said:

What’s baffling, or sad, probably both, is that Huggins’s system is not a hard system. It’s not like Beilein’s system when you felt bad for Joe Alexander in his first two years because he just couldn’t get it. People keep wanting shooters to arrive, but our shooting hasn’t been as bad as our passing and our defense. And by the way, Tommy McCune was one of the shooters who was supposed to arrive. As for point guard play, I’ve been soothing myself in the darker hours by repeating the word “Staten.” It helps. I recommend it. Jabbarie is, I think we’ve always known, more of a 2-guard with the added bonus of being able to create his own shot, and at least he’ll be able to move over to that natural spot sooner than Truck was able to in his tenure as a Mountaineer.

Well, it’s not an easy system, either. It’s based largely on feel. The defense does one thing and you have to know what one or two of your teammates are going to do as a reaction. That means those one or two people have to act and anticipate you, holding the ball, knowing exactly what those one or two people will do. You need time in the system. You also need confidence and patience and WVU loses both when things go bad. Can’t explain McCune except that, obviously, he hasn’t transitioned.

Drew said:

What Huggs can’t teach them is effort. It takes tremendous and consistent effort to be good defensively. A lot of these guys just aren’t willing to give that. Deniz being chief among them. If he’s struggling to make shots you can forget about him getting back on defense. The young players make the same mistakes over and over and over. They fall asleep, get caught ball watching and lose their man, forget that the guy they’re guarding is only going to look for open threes, and just don’t try hard enough to get through/over/under screens.

The 2-3 zone for this team is like zone blitzes of football 2010. God help us if anyone ever comes up with a 2-3 zone blitz.

You nailed it. Deniz was disappointing Wednesday and he looked very bothered by the physicality, the officiating and the sum of the game. I guess this is two games in a row that he’s loafed and been yanked because of it. Last week I defended it and thought he played pretty hard, save that one spot, against Pitt, but he didn’t have that against Notre Dame. Then again, the final 28 minutes were discouraging for WVU, so maybe it’s just easier for to go hard when the team is going good. He’s not alone there.

The 25314 said:

I found the Country Roads singing extremely clever and humorous.

Huggins publicly called out the tempermental Joe Alexander and it worked. It’s not like Huggins’s criticisms are revelations. Basketball isn’t like football where it’s harder to tell who screwed up. When Deniz doesn’t hustle back on defense and Jack Cooley scores, you know what happened. When Gary Browne doesn’t look where he is passing and throws it to ND for a run out, it’s obvious. When Dom Rutledge hedges a screen and allows a guard to throw it to the rolling foward, he messed up. We know who screwed up, they know who screwed up. Might as well say it.

Right, he sees what others see. He says to the public/press what he says to the players. Remember when Geno clearly lined up under the guard at LSU and Stewart swore it never happened? That’s dumb. The public is not. Why hide? And Huggins used to flamethrow the 2010 team. I mean, just single-out and smoke guys. I think that ended up OK.

Dave said:

I should add that I think Huggins will call someone out for what I’ll call self-inflicted issues (not hustling, lack of effort, lack of prep, being in the wrong spot), versus actual mistakes/miscues. A coach can teach a kid to shoot, but it doesn’t mean he will make every shot. However, any D1 basketball player should be able to run down the floor on defense.

Yes, though I’d say if you continually miss shots and continually shoot, he’ll get you for that. He did it after the first Notre Dame game. He toed your line Wednesday. Huggins said he was tempted to keep Hinds in to see if he could set the school record for missed shots … but quickly added that Hinds was trying to do what he knew to do based on his high school career.

TTHMMS said:

When the West Virginia students chant at a ND player that he is a word that rhymes with maggot, or a WVU player spits on ND fans and hits a ND cheerleader, or does an Irish jig in front of the ND bench, don’t clutch your pearls when they mock your song or your team

I’m with you, but I’m not sure anyone is mad at the students for doing it. I think they’re mad it happened. And no one here likes losing to Notre Dame. Insult met injury, that’s all.

NCMountaineer said:

I am a fan of Huggs and think he is the best coach we’ve had in a long time. That being said, I get irritated when gets a quick hook with guys like Aaron Brown and Keaton Miles. For whatever reason those two guys are not allowed to play thru mistakes. Meanwhile, Browne and Hinds get unlimited opportunities to make boneheaded plays and airball three pointers.

Aaron Brown’s play as of late is that of a player with zero confidence. He’s playing scared and nobody can be a good player like that. Its hard to believe that the kid confident enough to take and bury daggers against K-State is the same player we have seen in the past month and a half. Gary and Jabarie have made plays, but they play with confidence because the hook isn’t coming if they blow an assignment or miss a shot.

One more thing: this team REALLY misses Kevin Noreen. Stats don’t always tell the whole story. Is it a coincidence that once we lost the 6’11 banger that was smart and knew how to play on both sides of the ball that we started losing? The kid can guard bigs and can actually hedge a ball screen. We miss that.

This isn’t going to be popular, but it’s easy to replace what Brown and Miles give you. You’re talking two baskets and three rebounds a game. And there are players who can play their spots, or lineups that can be used to account for their vacancies. It’s far more difficult to replace Hinds and Browne. For one, they do tons more than Brown and Miles. After that, how do you play with out one or both point guards? It’s too dramatic of a change. The big thing is Hinds and Browne don’t back away if things aren’t going their way. Does it get them in trouble? Sure, but it produces good results, too. It’s the whole acts of commission v. acts of omission. We should remember this: The absence of Miles (I think he’s lost his starting spot to Browne) and Brown may have been a one-game thing specific to Notre Dame’s offense. We’ll know later. As for Noreen, WVU could use the brain and the brawn. He’d give KJ and/or Deniz a rest, he’d probably limit Nique’s minutes and he doesn’t make bonehead errors. His gaffes were mostly physical, clumsy ones. You see some of these close losses lately with the closing time blunders and you have to wonder.

Rugger said:

You can’t give Huggs a free pass on having 8 freshmen. His previous recruiting and coaching caused us to be short last year and very young this year. Dalton was a beaten man devoid of any confidence by the time he left, Danny was not very bright but he had enough of the head games and how did we not know Noah was a Perchead? Everyone in Logan knew.

I realize that he has placed the blame squarely on the players and many have bought the line. I have not. A great leader of men does not blame others when he is accountable whether he is pressing buttons or not.

His best players other than KJ and Ebanks were Beilein’s recruits. Every recruit Calipari gets is better than what Huggs recruits.

Coaching via fear and intimidation doesn’t seem to be conducive to stability.

Huggs coaching style seems a reasonable price to pay as a fan if you are making Sweet 16′s but if you are looking at the NIT, fans are going to start making an issue of the counter-productive behavior and sub par recruiting.

Eh, this is where it gets tricky. I get what you’re saying, I think you’re making solid points, but you can’t expect him to just coach up a solution to freshmen problems you see everywhere across the country, with very few exceptions, every year. And WVU has looked really tired in the second half of the past few games. Two of the opposing coaches have even said it. It’s not an excuse, not from me. It’s reality. Now, sure, he has a lot of freshmen, but I think he knows why. He said last year the recruiting class was a bust. Who’s fault is that? I’m pretty sure that’s understood. He said this year that a lot of this year’s players wouldn’t be playing if not for need. We also forget Beilein left him a team that was going to have some large senior classes. You can’t “miss” in basketball recruiting like this. It’s not like football. And I’m not saying anything Huggins doesn’t know. I’m just not going to compare Huggins and Calipari. No one should. I’m telling you, Huggins will tell you he doesn’t get the elite, blue-chip, five-star recruits. Calipari lives on them.

jtmountaineers said:

I used to think there was a dichotomy between the way Hugs treated the Beilein players whom he didn’t recruit vs. the players he recruited, and maybe there was a higher basketball IQ among Beilein recruits. But Devin Ebanks and Kevin Jones have rarely been on the spittle end of a Huggins outburst. It’s because they do exactly what they’re asked to do. At various points in the season he’s given similar praise to Jabbarie Hinds and Gary Browne, both of whom make errors, but who have been described as very coachable.

I guess we’ll have to define “head games” here — ie, benching Brown and Miles for defensive purposes on a night when, really, no one else guarded — but Joe Alexander was a Beilein recruit. Ditto Da’Sean. And Mazzulla. And Cam. And Wellington. I’d say each of them was invited to play a head game or two or seven with Huggins.

glibglub said:

It helped that Pitt wasn’t shooting well. Sadly, ND was lights out.

Glad you said this. Watched the Notre Dame game this morning. Don’t laugh … I went back and sped through the Pitt game. Pitt missed a lot of open shots. A lot. Notre Dame did not. There’s a momentum/emotional value there and WVU had it one night and did not the next.

StraightOuttaNorthCentral said:

Can I just say how strange it is to see the latest Big East membership news rotate through at the bottom of the screen and just absolutely not care at all?

After 8 years of reflexively defending the conference as a football product, it’s weird. Not complaining; it actually feels good to have no opinion about it whatsoever.

I feel the same about the San Diego State v. Temple conference game on the third Tuesday in October. My guess is national television will, too.

Bobby Heenan said:

The recipe is out there on how to beat this unit:

1) High ball screens on offense, using the screener that is guarded by Deniz or Dom. Note that they don’t like to have KJ’s man screening, because he defends them much better than our other bigs.

2) Sagging man or pack it in a zone on defense and make anyone not named Jones or Deniz beat you and/or shoot 3′s.

Sad thing is, I think the 2011 scouting reports are still in a lot of opposing offices. Similar approaches, except that KJ and Deniz get a lot more attention now. KJ seems to get doubled a little bit now and teams do everything to keep him off the offensive glass on the weak side. Deniz, because he tends to either dribble or take a second to plot his post move, draws that dropped-down defender. As for the ball screens, I still think the first Huggins team has the conch for that one.

hershy112 said:

How do you get a shot clock violation when you are down 21 with 6 minutes left? Ridiculous.

Not only that, but in a half where they took a lot of quick shots.

Scott H said:

FSU would’ve done this to us next year, when the ACC conference schedule goes to 9 games (just like ours for this coming season). For them to whine like this is a little disingenuous. They would’ve gladly left us holding the bag for 2013, citing conference scheduling as the culprit.

Posturing, for the reasons you present.

Jeff said:

Did the contract for the game not have a cancellation clause of $500,000 or so that we already paid?

Don’t think it’s been paid. But I have the contract. I’m looking at it. It has a liquidated damages clause to address things like Florida State is claiming it needs to address. It’s not like an incentive clause: “If WVU cancels the game, then the Seminoles collect $500,000.”

Dave said:

And in a strange turn of events, WVU calls the Big East to testify the damages incurred when the ACC (one item was to specifically keep FSU in the conference) raided the BE in 2003 and again in 2011.

From what I remember, this game was one of the payoff games as the result of the ACC raiding the Big East.

Of course, I think there are some BE schools looking for games for 2012. Maybe we can “help” them get together with FSU.

OK, that would be tremendous.

glibglub said:

It’s such a shame that FSU’s conference had to pillage WVU’s former conference, thus leading to the lawsuit that gave rise to this series, and then pillage it again, leading to the dire situation that sent WVU out the emergency exit bearing a scheduling quandary. Why it’s almost as if some sort of karmic debt is being called in.

I think it’s pretty clear there will be no lawsuit, and in part because of arguments like this, and Dave’s. But, man, do I wish there was a lawsuit, and because of arguments like this, and Dave’s.

The Artist Formerly Known as EER96 said:

You’d think they could give WVU a pass since Stewart rolled over for Bowden in the Gator Bowl a few year’s back.

Awww.

SheikYbuti said:

Let’s not miss the unspoken point here, which is not so much whether minor league baseball WILL be successful in Morgantown, but rather more along the lines of whether there’s enough of an argument that it COULD be such that the stadium obtains financing. Once construction is a fait accompli, I don’t care, aside from WVU game days, whether it becomes a state-of-the-art facility for hosting the state Legion tourney or a really good alternative to Westover Park for accommodating 70s pop acts (actually, I don’t know whether WP still does that during the county fair and otherwise, but they did 20 years ago). If the stadium actually attracts and retains a decent Rookie or Class A professional team, so much the better.

I’m hearing Class A, New York-Penn level. Short summer league season. Some good baseball there and the Morgantown Red Pandas would fit geographically. You know, because geography matters so much in sports. From there, it’s about finding revenue for the park — tournaments, but also concerts and, who knows, movie nights — and attractions for the surrounding area. Also, WVU will sell beer there. The minor-league team will require a license. The BoG already licensed Hawley Field. It’ll probably have to vote to license sales at the new park, but that’ll happen.

Dann White said:

Well, having lived in Charleston for 52 of my 62 years, I can attest to the fact that many optimistic reports precede an investment in a baseball “stadium” but the usage rarely justifies more than a baseball “park”.
My guess is though that those in power will push this project to slightly larger dimensions than reasonably needed based on projected uses than may never come to pass. These venues have limited appeal as concert venues and Monster Trucks are definitely out on a baseball diamond.
A further guess is that a “stadium” (more or less) will be built to keep up with the Joneses that exist in the Big 12 and that’s that.
DW

Yeah, but for better or worse, keeping up is a big, big part of this Big 12 move and this park. And is a unicycle definitely out on a baseball diamond?

Spatial Angel said:

Independant studies have shown, beyond a shadow of a doubt of any reasonable person, that publicly funded sports facilities…
…make citizens proud
…increase employment
…reduce unemployment
…reduce taxes
…make towns safer
…make residents happier
…contribute to an increase in church attendance
…make our children smarter

Buy it.

Bought it.

Jeff said:

Could Hawley Field stay as a practice facility and WVU only plays games at the new stadium? Would the Pirates allow Morgantown to have a team? I believe MLB teams have to approve teams within 75 miles their stadium. The Washington team is independent so they don’t have to follow the rule. Also lets say you have $200 to spend on baseball would you buy WVU tickets or minor league tickets.

They can do whatever they want with Hawley and practice facility sounds like a great idea.

“Hey is that your lousy baseball field?”
“Uh, no, that’s my practice field.”
“Welcome to the Big 12. I’m DeLoss.”

There are certain MLB rules to be followed, but WVU’s plan would cater to every requirement.

hershy112 said:

A few observations:

– The people who ask questions like the one GVZ got asked amaze me. “Nah, I hope they fire me before then.” I hope some coach answers that way eventually. Or maybe something like, “I don’t know, do you hope you still have a job when the new park opens?”

– From my experience at the WVU basketball games, there is still parking available in the Coliseum parking lot, it will just cost you $20. I’m not sure why you add more $20 parking, when the current $20 parking is not full.

– I think a sports complex in that area would be a tremendous upgrade. The sports facilities over there are extremely dated. The Shell building, Hawley field and the outdoor track could all stand to be taken out and a nice, new complex built. Obviously that takes money and time, but the improvement on that area would be fantastic. And they could really do some unique and cutting edge things with the facilities for all the sports that would be involved in that complex.

Re: Parking. People still park for free but walk a long way to get to the gym. If WVU can find a way to introduce a convenience, and profit from that convenience …

DB In Richmond said:

Richmond, Va’s new minor league team (about to start it’s second season) is named the Flying Squirrels. At first, that name sounded weird, but it has been a marketing success. Attendance at minor league games is all about the marketing, and you have to start with a good, unique name. Mine Mules is not a bad idea.

 

 

 

 

 

I’m wearing this today. Honest. And I wasn’t kidding about Mine Mules now that people seem to like it and I can act like I was serious all along. I see a cartoon mule with a ball cap looking over his shoulder as he swings a bat with his back legs.

Mack said:

Is Hertzel for or against the baseball stadium?

For: It’s baseball!

Against: It’s Oliver Luck, money-driven, and publicly-funded.

He’s against it until you’re for it and then for it until you’re against it and then he writes the greatest baseball story ever. On deadline.

Patchy said:

Please don’t trouble our legislature with proactive topics. They are busy doing the mission-critical work of funding more East German style baby seat inspection checkpoints.

Enjoy the weekend!