(In my hurry to embrace travel trouble, I didn’t publish the edited version of the Feedback. The typos have [mostly] been corrected.)

Welcome to an F Bomb-free edition of the Friday Feedback. Today I leave for New York City and — this is the truth — I had a segment of the flight cancelled last night. That’s a new one. Then again, I’m flying through Washington, D.C., and my leg from there was cancelled for fear of another awful snow storm. Rebooked, I now fly through Columbus … and D.C. This adds four hours to my trip. I give up. (Update: I gave up. See comment below.)

It also must be said this was arguably the finest week yet here at the blog. Lots of good discussion on a number of good topics, but we’re going to gravitate toward one: WVU students and the way they “behave” at basketball games.

There’s really no use in saying what doesn’t need to be repeated or be presented as anything apart from obvious. Throwing things = bad. Obscenities = not good. Notoriety = understandable.

WVU’s response is appropriate. It’s easier to police the place with more security (ie, preventative measures) in place. I just see one loophole and it’s the same as I saw before the response was released. Say WVU banned the students for a game or reduce the 2,000-seat student section some 400 seats the rest of the season, which was debated. I thought it would be hard to retroactively punish when there were no penalties in place before the actions were committed.

Now if WVU said yesterday, “If another technical foul is called against WVU for throwing items from the student section onto the floor, there will be a penalty of (blank),” then the next time it happens the students would have no excuse and no complaint for whatever happens as a result.

But if this happens again — and let’s be honest, it can — then what’s the reaction after that instance? There’s no known punishment. Are we then not back again at where we were Thursday?

Then again, perhaps the measures in place now are strong enough to prevent future idiocy. I feel pretty bad for the team. The players don’t like this attention and they have expressed concern — and have reason to do so — about what coming crowds will be like. The Villanova game will probably lack a little juice now that everyone is on alert. And the game at Pitt Friday? Holy crap. I know that has the team’s attention. One player proposed umbrellas. Honest.

Onto the Feedback. As always, comments appear as posted. In other words, who let the dogs out?

Sam said:

The school’s administration usually throws haymakers when these things happen (like the whiskey bottle incident back in the late 1990s) so I’d expect we’ll see something draconian come down the pike. But how can you police particular wingnuts?

Meanwhile: I still don’t understand the pounding we’re taking for the Karen Sypher chants. Fine if swearing is inappropriate, but what’s the difference between Duke fans targeting particular players with particular taunts, and our guys doing it? The gravity of the Sypher situation? The fact it was a coach? That’s just the media protecting Pitino by scolding the fans, and frankly, it’s ridiculous.

I don’t know how to say this, but through the past few days and games there have been discussions with a number of, shall we say, People Who Matter in this episode. None of the PWM have mentioned or openly expressed disgust with the Sypher chants. When it’s brought up, some wince or roll their eyes and I get the feeling they could have done without it, but that particular example is not at the heart of this matter. What is is a student section that is difficult to control at best and unpredictable at worst.

Gordo said:

Sam, I find the Sypher chants inappropriate because of the situation. We’re talking about a situation that involves alleged rape, abortion, adultery, etc. Two families torn apart who hear these chants and, all for what?? So we can intimidate a team/coach at a sporting event?? It’s just unnecessarily cruel. Even the student newspaper recognizes this.

And that’s the other side of this. It’s a touchy subject with some societal taboos. Using that as ammunition for a basketball game can seem a bit much. That said, I’d have a hard time believing a Big East coach has it worse on the road than Huggins and it never, ever bothers him or his team.

Bill said:

Mike – let me get this straight. You are “with Pitino” on this one because: he wore sneakers, Cotton Eye Joe, Sypher chants that are his own fault, and the fact that WVU was leading 13-0 at the start. Isn’t that playing a little too nicey-nice? Aren’t we supposed to take enjoyment in opposing teams and their coaches misery? That’s part of the fun right?

Sarcasm, my friend! I really don’t have a problem with the Sypher chant. Is it cruel? Yes. Is that the fault of WVU’s students? Nope.  I just hope people understand, first, how ruthless that is and, second, what goes around can indeed come around.

Gordo said:

On the fouls… I’d be ticked if I was Pitino too. Foul count was 28-18 in favor of WVU. We went to the line more than twice as much as they did.

Also, I’m going to be alone on this one, but I didn’t like the Karen Sypher chants. And I don’t understand this attitude that Pitino deserves it. Honestly, if I was in his situation I’d rather hear FU chants than to hear thousands of people reminding me of my past. I think the line between the two is very thin on the ‘classy’ scale.

What makes this such spicy issue is how the line is so thin and both sides can be argued so strongly and effectively. It’d be easy to stand on either side and make great points and change opinions … and then go on the other side and do the same and be impacted the same. In the end, the discussion and the disagreement goes around and around and around …

Sam said:

If you can’t mock a guy for behavior as dumb as the Karen Sypher imbroglio, what’s left? If you do something that dumb, in other words, you deserve to hear about it from opposing fans for the rest of your natural life. If you don’t want to hear Karen Sypher chants, don’t do what Pitino did. That’s remarkably simple.

It is simple. As simple as, say, telling students “Don’t curse” and/or “Don’t throw things.” It just isn’t that easy. I’m telling you, just wait until WVU goes to the Oakland Zoo a week from today or Joe Mazzulla goes to Providence. I don’t think people will feel quite as bad about giving it to Pitino or Jamie Dixon, for that matter.

lowercase jeff said:

I am embarrassed. I really hope this is addressed. I hope next Monday’s game, which very well might be the biggest game in the country up to this point, isn’t marred by young kids whom don’t know what it means to a West Virginian (which I’m not, but proud to know many) and a Mountaineer (which I am, and proud to be). I have never cared about the stereotypes, because they are meaningless. I care about US. Tonight, and last week, WE looked and acted like, well, something only the current WVU student section would say in public. As a Mountaineer I DEMAND we do something about this. If we have to chant, boo, “let’s gooo”, clap, whatever, to drown out those trash cheers, then so be it. I know we outnumber them. THEY are representing US poorly. Please help me on Monday reclaim the Coliseum.

lowercase jeff

Guess what everyone is going to be talking about for Monday’s game? Hint: Not Jay Wright and His Cuff Links and his Wildcats. Not the (likely) matchup of top-five teams. Not the Big East and national title implications. Hands will be wrung about the crowd and the students and all the stuff that shouldn’t be in play for a moment like that. Oh, and please don’t put this on the media for writing it. There’s a point where it’s going too far, but to ignore it is an impossible request.

TIRED said:

I am so tired of hearing about the students profanity. These are just words, if anything use it as a teaching tool for your kids tell them that these are words u shouldnt use. If that isnt good enough where ear plugs and if you dont like that go to the freeking zoo! Welcome to america, home of free speech! yeah baby yeah

I get your point. I do. But people are paying large amounts of money to watch a game, not to be offended or go to measures to avoid being offended. That’s also their right.

overtheSEC said:

Do the students still cheer “You suck, Ref! You suck, Ref!”? That and “a-hole” were staples when I was a kid–the first half of the Catlett era. Not a thing wrong with either of those and quite a difference between “Luke’s a f****,” and “Eff you, Turner.” Like the quote goes, it’s hard to define, but I know it when I see it.

Actually, the quote is pretty a pretty succinct way to say it.

Gordo said:

Just because it’s protected doesn’t make it right. Also, protection under the Constitution doesn’t mean protection from having your tix taken away by Huggs or the VP of student affairs, which needs to happen sooner rather than later.

While i’m writing this our fans have hit an Asst coach from Pitt in the face with a foreign object. I’m pretty sure that’s not covered under our Constition. So let’s stop with the First Amendment nonsense.

USA, USA! The timing was perfect for this comment, by the way.

Mack said:

I’m not the least offended by bad language. I just never understood why someone had to start the “Eff the (other team’s mascot)” chant EVERY SINGLE GAME!?

I’m not offended, either. I curse. A lot, in fact. Conversationally. Expressively. To gripe about language is perhaps hypocritical, though I think griping about the place this occurs is not. The reason everyone does it is because everyone does it. And also, I think the fact people wouldn’t act like this in other parts of society is why they choose to act like this inside the Coliseum.

glibglub said:

Between the obscenities and the throwing stuff, we are buying ourselves a snowballing storyline. What we will hear nationally is not “Dominant win by Mountaineers,” but “Classless fan throws object, hits Pitt staff, dishonors WVU, etc.”

Honestly, if you can’t attend a sporting event and refrain from throwing things at the court, the opposing staff, the players, at anything other than the nearest garbage receptacle, it is time to consider the distinct possibility that you are not fit to live in society.

Exactly. I can get past the profanity. I don’t necessarily agree with it, but I know it’s not unique to WVU and I know that despite what the current mood is, WVU students aren’t as bad as others. The throwing is shameful and those people don’t belong.

Karl said:

Watching tonight’s game made me very nervous. I felt like our fans and the Pitt contingent drifted awfully close to a Ron Artest situation. The timing of this couldn’t be worse with that AP article that went out about Grey’s letter to the student body. I won’t be surprised to see some immediate repercussions and/or policy changes re the student section.

You could see it coming. Either something in the crowd or on the floor was about to happen. I though Da’Sean — he HATES that this is happening — made a really, really good point. When people act ignorant in the stands, people then act out on the floor … and vice versa.

JP said:

I thought “suck my Dixon” was pretty creative.

… I’m not going to sit here and disagree with you. I though it was funny when I heard another student section had it earlier this season.

Dave said:

Re: Ebanks T. What did Ebanks do to warrant the T? When the two players were mingled, he leaves the screen toward mid-court and then appears later at the top, but I didn’t see anything that he did that was wrong. Mazzulla, I thought, might have gotten one because it looked like he was in the mix and might have stepped on the ref (not intentionally, but he was an extra body).

I’m sure that was an officiating mistake.

jtmountaineer said:

Props to Jamie Dixon for downplaying both the thrown object and the scrum between Flowers and McGhee.

Oh yeah. I don’t know the man and I can’t read him, but I’m not sure he was telling the truth Wednesday night. He seemed as if he was battling within to say the right thigns. But I thought he handled it perfectly.

Josh24601 said:

Proposed name for Deniz’s lefty jumphook: Baby-makin Music*.

* Will accept “Baby Maker”

I dare anyone to top this.

roopoo said:

Just when you think the NCAA can’t get dumber, they seek out to ‘fix’ the only thing they have ever done right. It will just become yet another drawn out overblown waste of time. Let’s just give all 200+ teams a pat on the back and a dumb trophy and call it a day. Let’s continue to reward complete mediocrity. There will be probably 20-25 sub .500 teams in a 96 team tournament.

Do you think people will be as interested? Will the casual fan still fill out a bracket if it is twice as big?

The NCAA doesn’t care about the student athlete, they care about their wallet and that’s it.

No matter how many ways I look at it, I don’t even begin to get it for even a brief moment. It seems like such a bad idea and a great way to ruin what’s a close-to-perfect system.

JP said:

Why does the NCAA think that an expanded tournament for basketball is good but a tournament for football is not?

And who would want to watch a 1 seed play a 24 seed?

It almost seems like the NCAA is screwing with us by floating this possibility — perhaps knowing it’ll never happen — while the college football playoff remains impossible.

p.i. reed said:

That Salisbury State vs. Mary Washington College NIT opener is gonna rock.

Oh, if the NCAA does this, the NIT will draw up a lawsuit so fast it’ll make Curtis Shaw’s whistle spin.

Dave said:

First, this is not necessarily hypocritical of the NCAA. They run the basketball tournament, but do not govern post-season football. That is why the football “champion” is not the NCAA champion, as there is no such award. It is the BCS champion (and before that the x-poll champion).

Second, I would love to see someone call out the bogus arguments related to the BCS. To set the record straight, there is no concern for the “student-athlete,” their grades or their season. While making this argument, the season has been expanded to 12 games plus some conference championships and the bowl season has been extended past January 1, not to mention spring practice and the work the kids do during the summer (nevermind whether it’s “official” or not). Every other classification outside of D1A has found a way to make a playoff work and many of those schools are academically tougher than the D1A schools. Next, there is no concern for having XYZ play in a bowl game … outside of a very few number of games, the majority of people watching the Nut Bowl played in December are the fans of the Nut Bowl teams. You can still have the Nut Bowl and not disrupt a championship playoff. The other argument that seems to be popular is that by going to an 8 or 16 game playoff, how do you draw the line to make it fair? Well, drawing the line at 2 is obviously insufficient when you have other undefeated teams. Drawing it at 8 makes sense, as it’s rare that you’d have more than 8 legitimate teams vying for the title. Eight also limits the number of travel weekends, etc. IMO, you eliminate the conference title games, go back to 11 regular season games (which essentially eliminates a bogus blowout game, and you emphasize quality wins during the season over beating nobodies … no more, “well they had x-number of wins over ranked teams” when the ranking system is flawed. Of course, this cuts the financial line which at least puts the argument squarely on the real issue and not clouded by all of this other nonsense. It makes financial sense for these mega-schools to put 100k in the stands and play NE Louisiana Polytechnic Military and Agriculture College and win by 60.

As for basketball, they have the NCAA, the NIT and whatever the third tournament is called. They talk of 20-win seasons as if they’re special … they were when a team only play 26-27 games. Today, some teams play 30+ games, so not only are they not as special (and this ties into the tournament because a team can claim a “20 win” season and making the tournament), but it also affects the student-athlete argument. Going to 96 teams is ridiculous. After a 30-game regular season and a conference tournament, we need to see every BE and ACC team, and the majority of the big Ten, Big 12 and PAC 10 in a tournament?

And this is supposedly a branch of “higher education”?

I just wanted to get this in. Well done, sir.

StraightOuttaNorthCentral said:

I like the Turk. His ceiling is “foreign, heftier, shorter Pittsnogle with actual inside skills.” His floor is “heftier, shorter Ales Chan.” Either way, I can’t wait.

So what does 4-for-4, nine points, seven minutes do to the evaluation?

overtheSEC said:

So SONC, would the midpoint of your floor and ceiling be a “Sandro Varajao with an outside game?”

… nevermind. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

StraightOuttaNorthCentral said:

“So SONC, would the midpoint of your floor and ceiling be a “Sandro Varajao with an outside game?””

Actually, I was thinking “John Oliver with the ability to score an occasional point” but that’s not a bad one, either.

Lemme know when you guys are finished, OK?

Birch said:

I guess that means instead of calling out with something simple like the stomach flu in March, I’ll have to get really creative. Leprosy next year?

I honestly planned my college classes around the NCAA Tournament. I refused to be in class on That Thursday. If that meant a few early classes in the fall semester during my time on campus, that was the price to pay. Three things came out of this that, to this day, are still somewhat remarkable: I graduated on time; I honestly never missed a class for reasons other than a funeral, a broken down car or travel trouble coming back from a weekend trip; and I didn’t develop a raging gambling problem. 

Shannon said:

What is the procedure in the Big East for reviewing basketball officials, especially after a game where both coaches seemed to have, and rightly so, a complaint about the officiating? Is there a review process after the season, during the season, or what? I would figure, at the least, an offseason review is mandatory, but what about during the season?

It’s a pretty fluid process, actually. Art Hyland, the Big East’s officiating boss, watches every game. The stripes are always being watched and graded and, presumably, considered appropriately. A school or coach can call into the Big East and raise a question, concern or complaint at any time. The review after the season is as you suspect it is.

Epictetus said:

Mike, if you have thought that WVU home games have been consistently officiated for the last few years, I wonder if we have been in the same Coliseum. Calls are nothing but inconsistent, not only for or against one or the other team, but even from minute to minute in the game itself. A reach in might be called at one end of the court, and then a much more egregious offense at the other end of the court draws no whistle. It’s truly a shame – one wonders how the players can even play the game sometimes, so fickle are the refs. I think Coach Huggins said it best one evening when he said if they would just give him a chair at the center court line in front of the scorer’s table, he could call the game quite well and fairly.

And evening up the fouls should never, ever be a goal. If one team commits fouls, they should be called for it; if the other team doesn’t, then don’t call the fouls. Consistency should be paramount.

Are Big East officials graded on every game? If not, they should be. It might be the only way to separate the wheat from the chaff. By the end of the season, you could have the best-performing refs work the tournament and have better games as a result.

I wouldn’t say they’re always consistent. Far from it, in fact, and I usually have a good idea what to expect from many officials, sometimes because they are of the inconsistent brand. Sometimes you know they’re going to even up the calls. I just don’t think officiating is as bad or as directly related to the outcome as many people seem to believe.

The 25314 said:

I’m still waiting for the Big East to admit error in the operation of the clock during Edgar Sosa’s “WALK-off” game winner against WVU in the ‘07 Big East Tournament, which kept WVU out of the NCAA’s.

… and there are exceptions, I must admit.

oklahomamountaineer said:

Off topic…..and I know they lost last night, but is there a coach who has done a better job of building a program than Mike Carey with the WVU women. This program was deep in the abyss when he took over, and has built from a near cellar dweller in the Big East to the #8 program in all the land.

Huggs and Stew get more press, positive and negative, than him, but I’m very surprised at what he’s accomplished and that we have been able to keep him.

To be honest, I’m surprised he stuck with the women’s game as long as he has, but I can remember a while back, when the future maybe didn’t seem so good, he was committed to a plan he had in place. Looks like he had a pretty firm grip on the present and picture of the future. Great coach (a lot of the men’s players, past and present, really admire the guy, which always said something to me) with a personality suited for the job (we shared a laugh and a high-five/manshake today about yesterday’s post). And don’t forget about the constant turnover on his staff. If he can keep his assistants together for a few years in a row, it reasons to get better.

The Artist Formerly Known as EER96 said:

Mike:

Do the remaining Big East Football members merge with the Mountain West to create a football only conference? Any talk of this? We can’t go down the road of inviting mid-major schools into the Big East or it is over…well, that is the way I see it.

Is the basketball/football split going to be accelerated because of this? Any thoughts would be appreciated

I’ve never heard that one and I highly doubt it happens. The idea of addition for the sake of addition is bad and eventually waters down the product, as you suggest. I also think the Mountain West has a pretty good thing going by itself. Its members might not be interested in leaving for the Big East when, in the eyes of some, it’s close to or already is on par with the Big East. There’s also a chance if enough people push the right buttons the Mountain West gets a seat at the BCS table. It just wouldn’t make any sense for them to dissolve their membership.

drlove said:

McCartney needs to subscribe to Stew’s twitter page. If he had, he would have known that Stew is a hip hop, R&B, booty shakin’ aficionado with enough swagger to vibrate the windows of his Buick with the radio off!

It’s required reading. In fact, substitute “McCartney” for any name and it’s still applicable.

SheikYbuti said:

It was a package deal. To get McCartney, we also had to take his Uncle Albert, who’s only a 2-star.

Bummer!

roopoo said:

Sheik, Dante Chambers is a pretty good player, on par with Pickett. He got lost in the shuffle down there because of playing on the team with highly recruited Stedman Bailey and Ivan McCartney. His numbers are impressive too and he was often the guy they went to if they needed a first down the last two years, particularly this year. He might have helped with signing IM, but he can be a great player for WVU as well.

Package deals for WVU in the recent past…Gwaltney and Scooter Berry…how did that work out?

Oll Stewart was adamant this was not a package deal, and that bothered me because I would really like someone to have something bad to say about WVU’s recruiting practices. Stew wouldn’t even let Dave McMichael recruit seniors — or go after UConn prospects — because “we don’t do that here.” That was a shot at that school down south, I believe.

Sam said:

I want to be described as a “Spider.” If I put that in my resume, would anybody object?

Show of hands? Nobody? OK!

hershy112 said:

Actually Brunetti starter the U.S. Army All American game and lost. I know, boo for me as a Debbie Downer.

hershy112 said:

Or whatever the male version is of a Debbie Downer.

Don’t sweat the details! 

Mack said:

We have the best junior college defensive end in the country coming in?! Stop me if I’m not all that excited about it.

I won’t stop you.

JP said:

Doesn’t Irvin have academic issues? Something about taking a class online? Sounds like Bigfoot 2

Long story short, he should be OK. He signed his first letter of intent before the start of this semester so he could enroll and be in spring practice, but he couldn’t tie everything up and get enrolled in time. Signing a second LOI is actually a good sign and he’s apparently in and around town and ready to go when the summer enrollment date arrives.

overtheSEC said:

“Hey Tony, ask me about the Beaumont wing place. Beaumont wing place.”

For the record, Sir Caridi was not in attendance.

Birch said:

I hope that robot isn’t the free labor Russ Sharp keeps talking about.

Why? Did you see it tear into the ground? Frozen ground, no less.

SheikYbuti said:

You gotta love the extension cord on the robot.

I saw it at the event and I thought, ‘I’m a headcase, I know, but I wonder if anyone else will see that.’ Congrats, Sheik. I think.

glibglub said:

Exciting developments on the academic and athletic fronts. Can we get that robot to go at our projectile-loving fans with its shovel?

Enjoy the weekend!